Author |
Message |
wayne1230cars Samba Member

Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2686 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
I am going through my 1960 - 6 volt wiring to clean all connections and eliminate some voltage drop. I have heard the suggestion of soldering the brass clips and rivet connections in the fuse box. My 60 has the screw terminals. Can anyone give more details on this and is it a worthwhile thing to do? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Eric&Barb Samba Member

Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 25475 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is a must to solder to all pre-1968 fuse boxes.
You can get the gist of how to do up your fuse box by checking out the "headlight switch rebuild" article in the type2.com library. Which is also a must for anyone running the early bell shaped style of headlight switch. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
KTPhil  Samba Member

Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 35318 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Eric&Barb wrote: |
It is a must to solder to all pre-1968 fuse boxes. |
Is this true for the screw-terminal earlies, also, or just the later push-tab style? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Eric&Barb Samba Member

Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 25475 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
KTPhil wrote: |
Eric&Barb wrote: |
It is a must to solder to all pre-1968 fuse boxes. |
Is this true for the screw-terminal earlies, also, or just the later push-tab style? |
ALL pre-1968 fuse boxes! Made a huge difference in our 1960 walk thru panel camper conversion that has the original screw terminal fuse box.
Like said before the early fuse box is built/riveted just like the early bell shaped headlight switch and requires same soldering fixes.
For the later:
The above shows the two ways one can solder the later ones.
After 1967 VW finally spot welded all the copper/brass pieces in the fuse boxes together, instead of just shoving them loosely into the fuse box. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
wayne1230cars Samba Member

Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2686 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Any pics of an early screw terminal fuse box that has had the solder treatment? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Eric&Barb Samba Member

Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 25475 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Finally got around to pulling out an early fuse box that a DPO had soldered up.
_________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
wayne1230cars Samba Member

Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 2686 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks. Appreciate it! _________________ 1960 beetle
1970 beetle convertible |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
runamoc  Samba Member

Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5931 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
|
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My Uncle taught me that soldering is used to 'hermetically' seal a mechanical connection. NOT make an electrical connection.  _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bill may Samba Member

Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
|
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
runamoc wrote: |
My Uncle taught me that soldering is used to 'hermetically' seal a mechanical connection. NOT make an electrical connection.  |
then you need to not solder yours. those that the rivet like peening has loosened need to solder to stabilize the loose tabs. or you could hermetically seal the loose peening so connection don't move around. _________________ Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017
1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
runamoc  Samba Member

Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5931 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
|
Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
bill may wrote: |
runamoc wrote: |
My Uncle taught me that soldering is used to 'hermetically' seal a mechanical connection. NOT make an electrical connection.  |
then you need to not solder yours. those that the rivet like peening has loosened need to solder to stabilize the loose tabs. or you could hermetically seal the loose peening so connection don't move around. |
I gently wire brush and clean the loose connections, re-peen or otherwise tighten up the connections best I can, then solder with real rosin core lead solder. Some of the examples here look like they didn't even take the time to clean the connection. Not having a clean connection requires more heat, the solder 'blobs' instead of 'flowing', and makes for a cold solder joint that doesn't improve the electrical properties of the connection.  _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
quartermilecamel Samba Member

Joined: April 16, 2008 Posts: 3929 Location: ohio
|
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
bill may wrote: |
runamoc wrote: |
My Uncle taught me that soldering is used to 'hermetically' seal a mechanical connection. NOT make an electrical connection.  |
then you need to not solder yours. those that the rivet like peening has loosened need to solder to stabilize the loose tabs. or you could hermetically seal the loose peening so connection don't move around. |
Sorry, couldnt resist, but tell your uncle to throw out his television since it has no mechanical connections in it and is just soldered.(holes drilled in the circuit board and component leads sticking through it.........absolutely no connection...........untill component is SOLDERED to the printed circuit board.) _________________ Waiting for santa to drop off funky green. I can wish can't I???? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
runamoc  Samba Member

Joined: June 19, 2006 Posts: 5931 Location: 37.5N 77.1W
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
quartermilecamel wrote: |
bill may wrote: |
runamoc wrote: |
My Uncle taught me that soldering is used to 'hermetically' seal a mechanical connection. NOT make an electrical connection.  |
then you need to not solder yours. those that the rivet like peening has loosened need to solder to stabilize the loose tabs. or you could hermetically seal the loose peening so connection don't move around. |
Sorry, couldnt resist, but tell your uncle to throw out his television since it has no mechanical connections in it and is just soldered.(holes drilled in the circuit board and component leads sticking through it.........absolutely no connection...........untill component is SOLDERED to the printed circuit board.) |
The leading cause of death of old TVs is from....loose solder connections. Caused by the shrink/swell of the circuit board from heat generated by the picture tube and it's hi-voltage power supply. Besides, Volkswagen are fused for 8 & 16 amps so the circuit connections need to be alittle more 'robust' than connections of millivolts and microamps. used by TVs. _________________ Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 44 yrs - Plan B: '81 Rabbit Diesel LS Deluxe - Plan C: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs-
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
quartermilecamel Samba Member

Joined: April 16, 2008 Posts: 3929 Location: ohio
|
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, yer right, I cooked a whole omlette on my tv last week cause my oven broke. Tons of heat oozing out of it. Watching television keeps my winter gas bill down too. By the way, unless you have a tv older than the dip soldering assembly line manufacturing technique, I suggest checking into a cold solder joint. Cold solder joints fail not because of heat although that lelps them along, but because of the fact that all the metals werent fused together. We arent talking minimal solder usage here. We are talking a good flow of electrical solder over a nice clean fuse box. Not the "just barely enough" method used in electronics. Go solder 2 pennys side by side flat on a board, not touching but soldered. Id bet you would get continuity between the two....thats called solder bridging, usually unwanted but none the less bridging. _________________ Waiting for santa to drop off funky green. I can wish can't I???? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ctroutma Samba Member

Joined: October 13, 2005 Posts: 167 Location: Atlanta, Ga
|
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: Re: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
I'm working through some electrical gremlins this weekend and trying to follow the advice about soldering old connections, but pulled my fuse block and am confused about what to solder? There are no rivets and the connections all look direct - am I missing something?
_________________ 1965 EZ Camper |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
flyboy161 Samba Member

Joined: December 26, 2009 Posts: 2132 Location: Perry, GA
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Eric&Barb Samba Member

Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 25475 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
The above image show the TWO WAYS one can solder up the 1961-67 fuse box.
Make sure to clean the fuse box up with tooth brush, soap and soak in vinegar for a couple of hours to get rid of corrosion. Use a hot enough soldering iron to quickly melt the solder or risk melting the plastic. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
|
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
everything needs to be clean and shiny for solder to propperly work. this is critical!!! some of the photos appear to show lack of cleaning prior to solder, the solder stuck on some less than clean spot, but probably is not making good contact. i can see that the solder did not wet the surfaces well at all. solder should never appear balled up , instead it should be flowed out and smooth. balled up means it did not wet well, and that is from contamination, or too low a temperature.
note increaseing temperature is not a substitute for failing to remove all contamination.
also a large solder iron is prefered for this kind of work, not a small electronics iron. you need watts to give you rapid localized heating. too small an iron will take too long to get the part at the area to be soldered hot enough, hence much more heat will travel into the metal clips before the correct temperature is achieved. too much heat can do two very bad things...
1,....ruin the plastic by warping or melting it.
2,....ruin the spring temper of the fuse holders.
keeping the opposite ends of the metal fuse holders away from the solder joint surrounded by a wet towel, or suspending in or resting in a pool of water. this will keep the areas not soldered cool so no spring tension is lost.
also degrease the part well, oils that are stuck between parts like under the rivet head will be liberated when they boil and splater off under the heat of the solder iron, causing loss of solder adhesion as they leave a residue all over your previusly clean surface.
if your not sure about soldering, you might be best to first try a commercial electronics parts cleaner spray, followed by re forming the rivets with a small hammer and suitable punch, that may help a lot.
of course, before starting, take a measure of voltage drops or resistances of each connection, then repeat after the restoration, just to see how your work paid off.
for the most original looking fuse panel, id go with cleaning and re setting the rivets first, as solder is seen easily and looks bad on a correct restoration.. all depends on if your into original or not, and the non solder method may do plenty fine.
i have soldered some in the past, but now on special cars i clean and reset rivets only, both methods have plus and minus.
all the ones i soldered was done 30 years ago or more, since then these cars are more rare and valuable enough to me that i want too go stock as possible on some of them.
good luck _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022
Last edited by bluebus86 on Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ctroutma Samba Member

Joined: October 13, 2005 Posts: 167 Location: Atlanta, Ga
|
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
Very helpful, thanks! _________________ 1965 EZ Camper |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Eric&Barb Samba Member

Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 25475 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
bluebus86 wrote: |
for the most original looking fuse panel, id go with cleaning and re setting the rivets first, as solder is seen easily and looks bad on a correct restoration.. all depends on if your into original or not, and the non solder method may do plenty fine. |
Fortunately most of the soldering on the riveted fuse boxes is hidden, because it is out of sight between the fuse box and the body. As for the few top side ones it is not too hard to sand off the excess solder, especially if you use a good hot soldering iron you can get most of the solder into the joint and not all about. The riveted fuse boxes seem to be able to hold up to higher temp than the post-1961 boxes and the post-1960 repro boxes are made of plastic that has even less heat resistance. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available!
Last edited by Eric&Barb on Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
EverettB  Administrator

Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 70937 Location: Phoenix 602
|
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Soldering brass clips in fuse box? |
|
|
bluebus86 wrote: |
of course, before starting, take a measure of voltage drops or resistances of each connection, then repeat after the restoration, just to see how your work paid off |
All good advice above.
To add to the text above - The resistance should be 0 (Zero) after it's cleaned up.
The last one I did everything measured zero, before soldering. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|