Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Rear wheel bearings clarification
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Rear wheel bearings clarification Reply with quote

I am assembling the rear end of my kit car and I need some assistance with a few of the items. I am getting conflicting information and need some clarification

I am using a 66 transaxle with short shafts and short splines. There are a few parts that I am being told are not neccasary.

First the use of an o-ring on the transaxle side under the retaining ring, in additon to the paper gaskets/shims. Does anyone use this o-ring? Where can I get them? Second on the wheel side the "oil deflector" or "oil slinger" that goes directly under the bearing cover and over the oil seal (not the one listed as washer). Does anyone use this? I have been told that if I dont have a oil drain hole in the bearing cover to use one. However if I do have an oil drain hole on the bearing cover this is not neccasary? Does anyone have any concrete information on this? My covers do not have visible drain holes. I cant find them anywhere?

Thanks
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 24853
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have bearing covers without the drain holes, those had no outer slinger washer, but they DID have an oil slinger that fit into the drum to keep any stray oil off the brakes. If you have breaing covers with the drain hole, those need the large slinger washer to keep any oil in the cap so it can drain out the hole in the cover and through the hole in the backing plate.

The O-ring was supposed to be used with both the early and late setup. It's the paper gasket that was added when they went to the weep hole bearing cap. Although I always used both even when my 62 still had the original drum-slinger style setup.

The seal kit contains the small and large O-rings, and the paper gasket, and the throwaway metal washer that's used as a seat for the small O-ring. http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D311%2D598%2D051


Early, then Late:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 3831
Location: St Louis 63043
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture of a bearing cap with the drain hole (from the gallery)...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

There should be a matching holes in the brake backing plates. These are weep holes to allow excess oil out of the drums for various reasons.
Depending on what spacers and deflectors you need, you may have to go to several sources as no one single place has them all shown in their online catalogs.
Here is the basic seal kit...
http://www.airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/rear-axle-wheel-bearing/seal-kit-rear-axle-111598051-a

Here is the kit with spacers, not sure if it comes with a deflector, you would need to contact them and ask first....
http://www.airheadparts.com/vintage-vw-parts/rear-...1598051-gr

CIP1 shows a kit that looks like it has the deflector in it, but no spacers...
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D111%2D598%2D051%2DA

I've also read recent post that said the Wolfsburg West kits now come with a deflector as well, but they are not shown in their listing here...
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111598051A
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice I have an early set up at the wheel no secondary washer style oil deflector. What about the rubber o-ring at the tranny end? Under the paper shims? Do you guys use this as well? I will also give Wolfsburg west a call today and see what I can get from them.

Thanks
Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Flavio
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
Flavio is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the last post in this one :
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5587198&highlight=#5587198
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 3831
Location: St Louis 63043
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flavio wrote:
Look at the last post in this one :
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5587198&highlight=#5587198

This post is regarding the side cover on the transmission, not the axle bearing cap.


Okay, first picture doesn't look like it has it, but this picture shows the cover with a large chamfer on the inside edge. This is to accommodate the large o-ring...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

So, yes, if you have this style cover you use the o-ring and one gasket "on the tranny side".
If your covers don't have a chamfer, then use the gasket only.
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Flavio
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
Flavio is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

61 SNRF.
Besides the bearing cap, I think that the PO also want to know about IF the side cover (transmission side) has or not an O-ring ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for all the help. I can now get the oil deflector (slinger) but my last question (which I am was not asking correctly) is in regards to the how the axle tubes mount to the tranny. The large tube holder which is bolted on with 6 nuts to the 8 mm studs coming out of the tranny. Under here are paper shims or gaskets to allow free movement of the tube. However in the bently manual it also shows an o-ring. Does anyone use this o-ring?

Sorry I guess I am still new at this and did not ask it correctly

Bob
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Flavio
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
Flavio is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where there is 2, 3 or 4 paper gaskets there is no O-ring. Just the paper gaskets.
And yes, this is the part with the 6 nuts. And.... also, like 61 SNRF has said .....you must "tune" the drag between the concave part of the axle tube and the white plastic "flower" adding or removing paper gaskets.
Each time you experiment that drag you have to torque the 6 nuts to "feel it". If too much drag you must add a papper if too loose you'll remove one paper gasket.

When doing these tests the papers must be dry. Only after the "tuning thing" is right, you should aplly some good quality RTV only in the metal surfaces...torque it to specs and you're done.

Before starting this work you must inspect the axle cover plates specially near all the six holes and look for distortions mainly around them....
All the surface must be perfectly level, OR, later, you will have leaks.
Those distortions are caused by excessive torque over the six nuts....
In mine I used flanged nuts, because they aplly the torque more evenly and on a bigger surface, right ?
I hope this helps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 24853
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yours is all 66 you said? They didn't start using the O-ring until mid 67. Your setup should be just the paper gasket stack. The Bentley does talk about the O-ring, note the chassis number.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh thank you. for that!!!!! Yes mine is 66 however I am building a kit car so no chassis number to speak of. Perfect, I will leave it out (couldnt find one anyway Smile )

Does anyone use sealant on these?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THis is all making so much more sense now!! Last question I hope for a while. The grease caps what size bolts on those 10mm but what pitch?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 24853
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using sealant on the gaskets - yes that is one of the only places I'll use silicone RTV sealant on Bugs. It's not uncommon for the side covers to be a bit warped around the bolt holes, and it's a pain in the ass to go in and try to reseal them later on. Assemble it dry while you try to find out how many gaskets you need in there to set up the axle tube endplay, but once you have and on final assembly, use RTV on the gaskets.

Cant remember the pitch on the bearing cap threads offhand, I think they are standard 1.5 though. Those bolts have special smaller than standard heads though, 14mm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 3831
Location: St Louis 63043
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flavio wrote:
Look at the last post in this one :
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5587198&highlight=#5587198

Flavio, as I pointed out, the topic and information in this post concerns the transmission side cover.

And, sorry for any confusion but I don't think it was me who said this...
"And.... also, like 61 SNRF has said .....you must "tune" the drag between the concave part of the axle tube and the white plastic "flower" adding or removing paper gaskets."
shifted, I hope you have enough information to complete your task now.
Good luck and best wishes for a good result.
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


Last edited by 61SNRF on Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you to all for the information!! I do have the information I need to assemble this. Also sorry for not calling the bits and pieces the right names, I know that added a little to the confusion.

Yes the bearing caps are 10mm 1.5 pitch. standard 17 mm heads dont fit or at least they fit tight so I will need to hunt these down.

I will not use a rubber oring on the axle tube retainers just paper and a little sealer.

Also no inside oil deflector as I have the older style and I am installing a disc brake kit that will also not use an oil deflector.

whew Axle tubes are tricky. I thought this was going to be easy!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 24853
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without any slinger provision back there, it's hard to say how much you will or won't have in the way of leakage. Usually not much, hopefully your disc brake setup won't get slimed in a bad way.

Me, I'd probably just convert to the late style setup - which, of course, requires the late style bearing caps, a hole drilled into the backing plate, and the slinger washer.

-Andy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shifted
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2011
Posts: 27
Location: northeast
shifted is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use Disk brakes you use the provided backing plates which dont have accomodations for a weep hole.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Flavio
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 414
Location: Madeira Island, Portugal
Flavio is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

61 SNRF.
You're absolutely right. I am sorry for my mistake about saying that you've said what you have not said....
Some confusion about the right names.....my fault.

And, sure, I hope that everything is more clear, now.

Thanks for your understanding
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 3831
Location: St Louis 63043
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flavio wrote:
61 SNRF.
You're absolutely right. I am sorry for my mistake about saying that you've said what you have not said....
Some confusion about the right names.....my fault.

And, sure, I hope that everything is more clear, now.

Thanks for your understanding

You're welcome, and I apologize as well if I was rude in pointing it out.
We are all just trying to help here.
Thank you for your genuine support.
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
glutamodo Premium Member
The Android


Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 24853
Location: Douglas, WY
glutamodo is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never dealt with rear disks before, I've seen pictures of the caliper mounts, I wasn't sure if you could drill them out for a weep hole or not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB