1208cc DP EFI milage/hp (turbo) build

Beetspeed · Last edited by Beetspeed on Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:18 pm; edited 2 times in total

I am close to start building a 1200 engine for the german 1200 dyno Challenge2012.
Not sure if this is the right place for it as it will use a 'modern' 2-oil control valve AS41 Mexican case with 1300 DP heads.
Crank is stock 64mm and the stock flimsy rods are also used (but shotpeened and arp'd).
Pistons will be a NOS set of Oettinger/Mahle 77,50mm (first overbore), hence the 1208cc displacement (just within 'regulations).
CR about 1:8.3-8.4.

The heads just received a superfinish valve seat job after my own mild porting job, leaving the entry port same diameter. They will get flowed coming WE, so we'll see what flow improvents the superfish job will have brought.

Intake will be Mex 1600i manifold with single butterfly and an aftermarket ecu (fuel and spark). I am curieus what it will make n/a, but a turbo is already here and the car is already set-up for turbo (and efi).

It is 40 horse tuning but definately not Vintage speed, so lemme know if this is the right forum or not or that it needs moving to the performance section Wink

Tnx,
Walter
_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A

grueni · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:53 am Post subject:

walter my friend. its not vintage! Wink

it will be moved.
but for sure interesting for some salt friends in fact of the small displacement.

hope you can get the 200+hp out of it.

wishes chris! i will be there!
_________________
1960 1584cc turbocharged, 35,5/32 (11,117s 1/4mile )

engineerscott · Samba Member Joined: August 22, 2005 Posts: 455

Sounds interesting. Who's ECU do you plan on using?

Beetspeed · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:48 am Post subject:

Its from DTA (brittish), model S60-pro, all my english club mates run this ecu as well btw.
_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A

Howard Sanson · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject:

Send some Pic's would like to see? Rolling Eyes

Beetspeed · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

John Moxon · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:42 am Post subject:

Moved from Vintage Speed Forum at OG poster's request.
_________________
John.
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Beetspeed · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:42 am Post subject:

Thanks John!

Howard,
It started with this:
An engine that was stuck (flywheel wouldn't move) from 'ebay' for little money (of course).
It's a 1200cc '40 horse' (actually 34hp over here) Mexican build unit, here behind my bug I will be transplanted into:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Its a dual oil control valved case, AS41, with 8mm studs and case inserts and the small spigots (87mm), so should be very strong for this purpose (EFI-turbo).

Can you tell it stood outside in the rain? Sad

So to clean up the rust, luckily I found some NOS Oettinger/Mahle oversized pistons for it: 77,5mm bore. Believe it or not, even though the rust had 'grown' thick in the bores, it cleaned all up with the oversized boring of the barrels!

I got the original crank heat treated and the rods shot peened and found some ARP bolts for the original rods. They were fully rebuild in the process.

Trial fitted the bored barrels to see what deck the new barrels and spot faced spigots would give:

Case got center main dowels and an align bore. I also had the lifter bores machined with a horizontal oil groove, so the very aggressive cam I got for it (short duration, high lift, for stock rockers, don't ask for the grind pls ) will hopefully last a bit longer without using bushings. I know a ratio rocker set-up would have been much better, but budget and using as much stock parts as possible are a consideration as well in the Challenge.
Big foot lifters are being used (31mm) so the cam face doesn't ride on the outer edge.

Heads are allowed 1300 dual port heads, as we got those on our 1300cc engines in '70. Finding a new set is impossible and a good set almost as hard, but eventually did without cracks. Rebuild with new guides, 3mm fly-cut for a goal of 1: 8.0-8.5 CR and a killer 'superfinish' valve seat job. Did some mild porting to it as well.

Finally I also got all my 'small' parts from John at aircooled.net yesterday, hence the posting only now Very Happy

I gotta say something about the quality of John Connoly as a parts supplier. I have bought often from him over the past years (but not exclusively) and he never let me down, but he has surpassed my expectations this time big time! He found a (rather large I must admit) credit sum in his administration from years back (2008!), that I had almost forgot about alltogether myself and withdraw the amount without me asking for it (like I said, I really had forgotten about it). That wa a pleasent surprise, because as yu can see, all these 'little' parts add up fast when your having fun.
Thank you John for your honesty!! Honesty goes a long way in my book, especially when its not called upon.

So, I can finally start building after all this parts hunting and parts cleaning and all measuring ad machine work!
I'll update as I go along with some dyno print-outs as a result hopefully.
_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A

Chip · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject:

Wally, I'm very excited to see this all come together. Should be awesome! What year is the motor out of? Did Europe get 1200's back in the 70's.

Beetspeed · Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject:

Thanks Chip,
Yes, sure we did, but those older engines don;t have the features of the case I mentioned before. Our little country got a few batches of Mexican beetles in 1980-1982 after production or at least sales of bugs had stopped here all together a few years before.

These are the pistons I mentioned above: the 1st ring is 1.75mm as opposed to the 2.0mm of regular 1200 pistons or even 2.5 for the older 1200 77mm bore pistons Very Happy

Unfortunately they are not forged so I will have to be extremely 'carefull' with avoiding knock..
_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A

Chuey · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: Space age engine coatings:

Bret Young · Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:50 pm Post subject:

Not gonna lie. I saw a few vids on youtube a few weeks back of the guys doing the 1200cc challenge and with the caliber that you built your 2.2L turbo type 4, this build up will be cool.

I just love this sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpMpp1V-mzs&feature=related

Cant wait for you to get yours done. Wanna hear that thing spool up.

Beetspeed · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject:

Finally short block has been closed Very Happy

_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A

Beetspeed · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject:

1200cc powerrr! Laughing

Also had to shorten the tin and fan housing by 11mm per side!
So, fresh air ducts were removed and I rearranged the outer vane in the shroud so the vane picking up the air for the fresh air is now diverted to blow on the heads as well, parallel to the outer skin and is sort-off in line with the other vanes.
Here's a pic just before closing the shroud and rewelding in the side attachment plates:

_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A

ralf · Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject:

way awesome wally!!

i spy the barrels being unshrouded Smile

do the 1300 heads come close to the wall? or the valves are slightly bigger?

and yes John is class like that Smile

props to him!
_________________
Flow Through a Curved Conduit

porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk

dawie · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:15 am Post subject:

Nice Wally! Very Happy

Beetspeed · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:11 am Post subject:

ralf · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:58 am Post subject:

ah!! that makes sense... i thought u upped the valve size

but by wat u say... u just kinda "port matched" the cylinder to the chamber?

makes sense Smile

keep it goin wally!

im sure ur super wont mind a smaller but still powerfull motor Smile

_________________
Flow Through a Curved Conduit

porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk

grueni · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:14 am Post subject:

Beetspeed · Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:59 am Post subject:

Hey Chris,

Yeah, it would be cool to meet up at the dynoday!
It is held at 28th april 2012 near Hannover (I don't even know where exactly tbh...
More info on the dynoday here:
http://bugfans.de/forum/1200cc/bitchspeed-dynoday-mkt-warmup-2012-t1771.html

CU,
Walter
_________________
'75 SB 1303 2,4ltr T4 turbo: 10.58 @ 129.9mph
'65 Ruska buggy 1192cc EFI 80hp N/A


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