Subaru Frankenmotor for the Westy

[smurfpike]

^Looks like my dream toy shop!

How does it do on the highway at cruising speed? does it go 75 with ease? or can you tell that you are revving it out at higher speeds?

I am glad to hear you like it because I am trying to decide between the Franken Motor or the 2.5
_________________
1965 Ottinger Tribute Overland Bus
IG @otter.the.overland.bus
FB Ottertheoverlandbus

IG Westyrestorations
FB WestyRestorations, parts and accessories

1987 Syncro "Big Red", Full restoration thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=606596

1978 Westy Camper, Full ground up restoration, restoration thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=593413

[Farfrumwork]

Starting from zero, I would advise a SOHC EJ2.5. It will be a better overall motor and not require digging into notes for repairs and whatnot (what head gasket did I use again...?)

I really, really like my franken-like setup (phase 1.5 DOHC EJ2.5 run off my original EJ22 ECU/wiring), it kicks ass!! But if I was starting with a stock vanagon I'd go with a SOHC EJ25. I wanted to use my EJ22ECU and wiring harness (less of a change overall, but still a major upgrade over the tired EJ22)

Most engine builders you talk with would probably agree that the 'stock' SOHC is a better bet.
_________________
sold -> '85 Wolfsburg Syncro / 'Built' DOHC EJ25 (a great machine!)
'07 Legacy spec.B, road tuned stgII
'17 4x4 Sprinter, stone grey, SMB pop-top, on 33"s

"Blood stains, speed kills - Fast cars, cheap thrills - Rich girls, fine wine - I've lost my sense, I've lost control, I've lost my mind"

[newfisher]

I had an Ej22 that lost compression and was faced with "what to do". After some Samba research, I found Ken Welton in WA. as a highly recommended and very knowledgeable Subaru Guru 360-253-0703. He exceeded my expectations. After discussing options, I chose the Franken motor 2.5 with the 2.2 heads ( modified) and running the OBD1 harness. STI block, ARP studs throughout, 11mm oil pump, multi layer head gaskets, heads milled and chambered, valves, solid lifters etc. This thing has been a rock star for the last 30k I have put on it in the last 10 months

I would recommend Ken and the Frankenmotor and will ALWAYS use him for future builds

[whynotvw]

[smurfpike]

Farfrumwork- are you suggesting just using a 2.5 or a 2.5 SOHC to build the Franken Motor?

Another question if I am planning on finding an automatic transmission vehicle and installing a Peloquin/ Positraction in it, will the torque be too much at low rpm's for off roading?

I don't want to start chewing stuff up (I assume this wont be the case but worth asking then finding out later it does and an empty wallet) , I know those transmissions are stout and can handle a lot.
_________________
1965 Ottinger Tribute Overland Bus
IG @otter.the.overland.bus
FB Ottertheoverlandbus

IG Westyrestorations
FB WestyRestorations, parts and accessories

1987 Syncro "Big Red", Full restoration thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=606596

1978 Westy Camper, Full ground up restoration, restoration thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=593413

[Farfrumwork]

^^Just a straight SOHC EJ25, not a franken.

IMO - franken-motors are best for CA residents and people that already have 2.2l setups

BTW - my DOHC motor is a Ken Welter build too (ARP studs, Sti oil pump, etc...) His engines are bad ass!
_________________
sold -> '85 Wolfsburg Syncro / 'Built' DOHC EJ25 (a great machine!)
'07 Legacy spec.B, road tuned stgII
'17 4x4 Sprinter, stone grey, SMB pop-top, on 33"s

"Blood stains, speed kills - Fast cars, cheap thrills - Rich girls, fine wine - I've lost my sense, I've lost control, I've lost my mind"

[whynotvw]

Instead of asking basic questions that these forums already have, one phone call to the actual builder should answer most of your questions.

Here is one of the builders. He did a great job on mine, so I would recommend him and Steve the owner took the time to answer all my questions which was the same as yours

http://subaruperformanceengines.com/

1-619-445-5232 Steve

[shepherdsond]

I am thinking of doing this, and would welcome feedback.

My 2.2 SOHC (phase II from a 98 Impreza) dropped some valves in one head when the timing belt broke (failed tensioner) 2 weeks ago.

I have three options. I can repair the 2.2 head, I can put in a used 2.5 with new electrical harness and new header or I can fix the head and make up a hybrid with a new (from Subaru) 2.5 short block for about $1000 less than a used 2.5 conversion. I am not doing the work myself.

The cheapest option of course is to just fix the head but this is a good opportunity to pay a little more and improve performance and get an almost new engine (3 year warranty on the 2.5 short block), the Frankenmotor is appealing.

Some questions:
Seems from reading this thread that compression will be raised (or maybe not with thicker gasket?). Do I have to use premium or will the knock sensor protect me?

I am not sure about what model 2.5 short blocks are available, what should I look for?

Can anyone tell me if the Frankenmotor will be interference or not?

Any other factors I need to consider?

I want to end up with a more powerful but also reliable engine.

Many Thanks,
_________________
87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517

[dgbeatty]

Last year I built and installed a Frankenmotor in our 87 Westy to replace a 96 2.2. It has a bit over 10k miles now and is performing very well.
I used a 2010 2.5 STI shortblock paired with 1997 2.2 heads. I wanted the STI crankcase for the oil cooled pistons and the nitrated crankshaft. The 1997 heads were the first year for solid lifters which I wanted for the lower friction drag. This was paired with a 2003 intake manifold and electronics so that I could modify the ECU maps and it also eliminated the MAF sensor.
Some would call this the ultimate California 2.5 as it appears to be a 2.2 after removal of the EJ22 casting and the installation of a dummy MAF sensor.
We get about 20-21 mpg in town and between 23-26 traveling on the highway in the 65mph range with a 094 five speed.
This year we are installing a Subaru transmission to improve the splits in ratios and to meet the somewhat silly California conversion requirements if those ever get to be a problem.

[shepherdsond]

Thanks, i think that is the same head as mine. Is it an interference engine now?
_________________
87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517

[Franklinstower]

[shepherdsond]

Thanks
I ended up just getting the head fixed (2 bent valves) since l could not source a suitable 2.5 short block in time.[/b]
_________________
87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517

[remichivo]

[remichivo]

Need help on reverse Intake Manifold what implication, except relocating the alternateur. Do i need to relocate any cables?
I what to fit a EJ22 on my 1977 bus after the end of my 2000cc injection.
I could use a Throttle Body Reverserbut the reverse intake is much more what i want to do .

[chompy]

[Van Quixote]

Will an ej22 (head, harness, ecu, sensors) from 1997 Legacy work with a 2002 ej25 block for a Frankenmotor?

I’d be mighty thankful for any/everyone’s input. I’m really trying to figure out the best way forward given my specific circumstances. And I am posting the below on Subaru and Frankenmotor specific message boards, but am trying to get wise as much as possible.

THE GOAL:
In the end, I intend on swapping out the 1.9L waterboxer engine currently in my 1984 VW Westfalia with whatever Subaru engine I can put together with the parts I have and the least amount of additional investment.

THE SPECIFICS:
I pulled a complete ej22 engine (w/ block, head, intake and all components) alongside the harness (w/ ecu & sensors) out of a 1997 Legacy with over 200,000 miles on it. My original plan was to rebuild this one down to the block and put it into the van. A ton of work, to be sure.

Then I came across a very affordable sohc ej25 block and head (it does have the timing components, but no intake or other top of engine miscellany) that was completely rebuilt. If I use this, it would obviously save me a ton of time and energy that I would have spent rebuilding the ej22. There is one kicker to the ej25 engine. It seems to need some valve work (according to PO) and lost compression after a few miles of driving it after the install on PO’s vehicle. At that point, the PO switched directions and sold the engine to me. I do not know the year or make of the vehicle the ej25 was pulled from, only that “it will work with a harness from a 2002.”

So that’s ALL the info. And here’s

THE CROSSROADS:

- Will the ej22 head, intake and harness from the 1997 Legacy work with this sohc ej25 block that I know nothing about besides “it will work with a harness from a 2002”?
- If so, should I rebuild the head and make a Frankenmotor?
- If the ej22 top end and harness will work with this ej25 block, this seems to be the most affordable way to go about it.

OR

- Go full ej25?
- Should I troubleshoot the valve issue on the ej25 and just try to finish this engine out?
- Would the ej22 intake, top of motor components, etc. work on the ej25?
- Would the ej22 harness from a 1997 Legacy work on this ej25 or do I need a new harness (sensors, ecu)?
- If I can’t use any of the ej22 components, might I be able to swap them (and the entire engine, for that matter) out with someone who has some ej25 parts to spare?

I know this is a very specific pickle, I’m in and I appreciate that there are people who LOVE solving these types of riddles. I have done a bunch of research but would love as much input as possible. I don’t want to end up doing unnecessary work. But I’m not afraid of work. I rebuilt the waterboxer currently in there and have done a ton of other work on the van. Thanks again!
-bob

PS. TL/DR haha
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"Van Quixote" (a.k.a. Cluster Truck)
1984 Westfalia 1.9L 4-speed manual

[tjet]

I just bought a '95 EJ22 (see below) & I have a couple of questions. I plan on getting a newer 2,5L block & use the EJ22 heads, intake & assys. I see that some of the builds use a EJ25D block. Will a EJ257 block work?

Also, on this EJ22, how big is it, say compared to a WBX? I need to go pick it up and put it in the trunk of my Jetta. I've transported a WBX in the trunk before. Looking at the pic, it looks like I will need to pull the pan and oil filter off.

Finally, just to confirm, do these "Frankenmotors" retain the non-interference feature of the '90-'96 SOHC EJ22? I will do the rebuild myself. I can get the new pistons relieved if necessary.

Thanks

[[email protected]]

Sweet. I can't answer your questions, but am looking for an in-depth how to post.

[levi]

If you have an old tire w/out the rim, that's how I've moved these.
Just set it right down in.
Physically its about the same dimensions as a wbx.

I know that folks have used the 257, my understanding is that it's a better option, but definitely get the complete info first.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way

https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40

[tjet]

Here's a couple of pics of my '95 EJ22 before I tear it down. Note connectors in rear, which help identity it as a '95 with an OBD II. I've read that the '90-'94 OBD I EJ22 engines do not have this connection point. This may be helpful if you need to I.D. a removed engine.

I found some details on the head gaskets needed for a Frankenmotor. Cometic makes a special "hybrid" gasket for putting 90-95 EJ22 heads on a 2.5 block.
p/n: H1631SPK051S

I plan on using an EJ257 STi block.

https://www.amazon.com/Cometic-Gasket-H1631SPK051S-Subaru-Hybrid/dp/B01BT7NUYU

VIN decode for 90-94 EJ22 junkyard hunting.