Differential lock opinion...

[silversyncro]

The issue, in my opinion, is not the 4wd system, but basically the result of the syncro's limited (sorta lame) suspension capability. Keeping the rubber on the road can be a real issue in the right circumstances.

If you ever plan on taking your syncro off flat pavement or improved forest service roads...you'll want at least a rear locker.
It just doesn't take much at all, to get a wheel (or two) off the ground in these vans.

I've owned 4x4's all my life...none with lockers...and have never had problems going just about anywhere. I'm not a rock crawler, or someone who spends time in 4x4 parks, just a back-country traveler. That said, with-out lockers, I would have been stuck hundreds of times in the syncro, even with my decoupler & straight shaft.
All it takes is the right combo of pot holes or dips or rocks or whatever...add to that a little mud, sand, or snow, & you'll have at least one wheel spinning (like Jon explained) & yer stuck.

Spinning your wheels in the BC is also a great way to break a cv joint or snap an axle. Controlled, thoughtful use of a locker can help prevent this problem as well (read...learn to recognize the terrain & lock up BEFORE yer stuck or spinning)
Just as important however is to remember to unlock as soon as you can as driving around locked up will creat a whole host of other issues.

It may seem like a lot of money up front, but just wait, it'll seem like peanuts compared to all the other crap you'll blow your wad on, & it's a lot of bang for your buck when you really need it.

[Jon_slider]

from an earlier thread on non locker vs locker:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=428163

"There comes a time when you will drive over a hole/lump big enough to lift one of the wheels of your vehicle off the ground.
At this point, the majority of the weight of your vehicle is positioned on two wheels. Just like a 4 legged chair with a leg shorter or longer than the rest. Also at this point, all of the drive will go to the wheel in the air and it's diagonally opposite wheel meaning you don't go anywhere.

This is where a difflock comes in. It locks the differential so that both wheels on that axle have to turn at the same speed and distributing the drive to both wheels so you keep going. This also means you can't go around corners (when driving on tarmac) as there's no slip, the wheels turn at exactly the same speed.
"

"I'm using the rear difflock here to get up the bank. I wouldn't be able to do it without as the right rear wheel and left front wheel would spin."

here is another image, food for thought.. one front wheel spinning, the other doing nothing.. except waiting for the back wheels to push.. front unlocked, rear unlocked.. if a back spins.. game over.. or, back down and try again, go faster and use more momentum (and hope not to bash into anything.. slow is better)

and one more showing my van going through an obstacle that has my driver rear wheel in a hole.. IF I was NOT locked in the rear, nor the front, since my front wheel is in the air.. my Syncro would have NO front wheel assist.. and IF one rear wheel spins in that situation.. Im going to want to use my rear locker to help push me forward..

otoh, with the rear locked engaged, IF I want the one front wheel that IS on the ground to help pull, I need a front Locker.. LSD would not work once a wheel is in the air..

and last, here is a picture of a loose dirt hill that we used to test whether Lockers would be required to make it up.. Yes, we failed to climb the hill without lockers

[r.e.wing_fc3s]

ill chime in for the folks considering a peloquin tbd in their automatics. i knew from lack of response to my posts about lockup characterisitcs that i would probably be disappointed in the offroad performance of this combo. but i still hadnt collected any of the parts for the planned conversion to syncro locking trans. and i was desperate for traction as the van would get stuck embarrassingly easily. So I had the diff section rebuilt by german trans and paired it to an audi 5000 turbo trans i rebuilt. One strange thing i notice is a groaning noise from the diff when its "working" or activated. And as far as working off road or in snow its benefits are quite limited. Developed to control and enhance traction at racing wheel speeds, the nature of all types of limited slip diffs must see a wheel speed difference(slip) before activating. the essence of controlled off roading is minimizing wheel slip. so at low speed when you need it most trying not to spin a tire and dig in the lsd is at its least effective. the handbrake works marginally to help activate the diff but not enough to make the 1200$ worth it if i was to do it again.

i
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Reference Automotive: NW Washingtons Vanagon Specialist. (360)366-6965. referenceautomotive.com

[Jon_slider]

> at low speed when you need it most trying not to spin a tire and dig in the lsd is at its least effective

You can now have a LOCKING LSD:
http://aatransaxle.com/price_list.htm

"Locker Limited Slip Diffs $1295
Always a torque biasing LSD with a selectable factory style locker on demand for Syncro or 2wd...(A 2wd can be retrofitted to become a locker)... fnt or rear install kit- $500 for all the needed goodies from dash switch back to fork inside trans. Labor varies according to rebuild criteria.."

But if installed in a 2wd, you still would not have a Granny Gear, for that you need a Syncro tranny

otoh, for a Syncro with no Locker, like the OP is considering buying, adding the LLSD seems like a good option. But keep in mind the $500 for control knob and plumbing, plus a minimum of $250 labor, plus remove tranny, ship, downtime, ship, reinstall costs.. easily $2,500..

imho, it is still cheaper to buy a Syncro with a Locker, than to add it later..

[GWTWTLW]

I've had a locker-less Syncro for the last 3 years. I've never had any problems in the snow or the offroading I have done.

I got eaten alive at Mogfest this year though. I discovered that my VC is toast now too. My first task is to get a decoupler and straight shaft. The places I got stuck at Mogfest I easily would have been able to get out of with power to the front wheels.

I'm still waffling between a full locker and a pelaquin for the rear wheels. The LSD is about half the price but I'd hate to put one in and then need a new tranny soon anyway. I'll probably wait and see how it does with the decoupler. I have the plumbing now...
_________________
89 Syncro Westy - GW 2.5, now with a double knob job
@gwtwtlw

[r.e.wing_fc3s]

[syncrodoka]

If you don't foresee doing this type of maneuver in your driving then you are probably fine without a locker. If you see it as a terrain that you might encounter I would hold off for a locker equipped van. This is why you would want a locker equipped syncro-

When the van transfers over the apex a front and a rear tire will be in the air and the van cannot move forward on it's own power and you will be relying on momentum. If you are heading uphill while doing this type of terrain you will stop forward motion and could be going backwards possibly putting the van in a precarious position.

For a road driven, dirt roads and mild fire roads lockers aren't really needed.
Good luck

[Howesight]

One more pro-locker opinion here.

I think that regardless whether you buy the non-locker Syncro you are considering, you will eventually want a rear locker.

I had my drive shaft off for a while a couple years ago and drove my Syncro as a rear wheel drive offroad. The traction difference when the rear diff is locked is like night and day.

Even my beater Toyota 4-runner (which has way more articulation than the Syncro) became a different beast altogether with a locking rear diff.

I have torque biasing diffs on my URS4 (including the factory TBD centre diff) and they really help put the power to the pavement in the wet, but would not help off-road since the reaction time before the torque gets biased is too slow. At highway speed, the reaction time is very good. At crawling speed, the TBD gets you stuck, due to the reaction time, and then might help you get unstuck.

Having said that, electronically controlled systems that automatically apply braking to a slipping wheel can make really good use of TBD's, even in off-road applications. So I won't say TBD's are useless off-road altogether, but without computer control, they are.

My opinion is you ought to keep an eye out for a locker-equipped syncro transaxle if you do buy that non-locker syncro. You'll be glad you did.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[vanagonjr]

[Steve Arndt]

I have an 87 non locker Syncro and really want a locker installed when I buy a rebuilt trans from AA or German Trans. There is no way I am spending $500 for a couple vacuum fittings and a 3 way vacuum switch. I'm thinking of fabbing a small lever assembly with a push/pull cable. The other option would be an electric solenoid switching the vacuum back at the trans, instead of switching the vacuum at the dash. Thoughts?

[itsasyncro]

You would be spending the bulk of your $500 on the console.
so your van would have as close to a factory install as
possible, that's why I didn't think twice about doing it.
With your new motor and all, it would seem like money well
spent.
Just my opinion, everyone knows what that's worth.
Jeff

[joseph928]

In my syncro most of the time I use just the 4x4 ,it works just fine. But when you go rock crawling you have to have a locker or you are not going anywhere . These things love to rase one wheel off of the ground, when you do you go nowhere . But I've not seen a time when I think I need a front locker, but I would take one if you give it to me.
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1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.

[GWTWTLW]

[Syncroincity]

[FrankenSubySyncro]

I recently converted a non-locking syncro trans to a locker and added a 6.17 R&P. I already had a front and rear locker with 4.86 R&P so I had the plumbing and dash console.

Here is the cost of the parts required:
differential case with provision for the the locking rod $100 used
locking differential and fork $500 used
stainless sleeve and locking rod $125
vacuum actuator $60
actuator bracket $50

Parts total: $835

I did the work so that doesn't include labor. The labor cost would be included in a rebuild which you should do since the pinion shaft has to be transferred to the locking diff case. If your going that far, you might as well do a rebuild with new bearings and syncros. This is easily $3k when all finished. If you are lucky and your diff case has the boss for the locking rod, it can be machined. Don't forget the cost of removal and reinstall if not doing it yourself.

You don't have to have the dash panel if you are willing to drill a hole in the dash to mount the switch and indicator light. The switch costs $75
You also need the tubing, check valve, vacuum reservoir but these can be found on other VWs.

As mentioned before, the locker makes up for the lack of suspension travel. I have also needed the locker in deep snow. Its not just for rock crawling, its needed in uneven terrain as shown in the pictures above. Syncros are not very good rock crawlers anyways because of the lack of suspension travel.

You know you want a locker, the question is do you want to pay now or pay more to convert a non-locker later.
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Syncronize it!
1987 Franken Syncro (converted 2WD auto)
2004 2.5 SOHC Subaru
F & R lockers, decoupler, SS, 6.17 R&P
Trans Cooler
EMPI race prepped 930 CVs and axles
Bilstein coilover front, rear ProComp MX-6066R shocks, 14" hypercoil springs
30x9.5 15" BFG Muds
Custom skid plates
Nose job (custom front bumper) http://www.flickr.com/photos/subyvanagon/sets/72157624970330925/

[Jon_slider]

With an inexperienced driver, but a front locker, this van made it all the way up and over the top of Truck Hill

With an expert driver, but no front locker, this van only got part way up before it had to give up due to wheel spin

both vehicles have over 200ft lbs of torque, both have rear lockers, both have decouplers, both have solid shafts.

The van that failed has 30" BFG Mud Terrain tires. The van that crested has 31" BFG AT tires

The gas powered van that failed is geared to 11.6mph @4000rpm, the diesel van that crested is geared to 8.2mph @3000rpm. A stock USA gasoline fueled vanagon is geared to 10mph@4000rpm

[Mickyfin]

Some really useful, and great advice in this thread. Thanks all.

One question to throw into the mix if I may?

What exactly does the G Gear do in relation to the drivetrain?

[Syncroincity]

[Mickyfin]

Ok, cool. Thanks

[cvbill]

A few years back, Syncro Safari went up the Top of the World Trail in Moab. A 12 hour round trip trip. 12 locking Syncros, one non locking Syncro (Jon Rall).
All went up, all came down, no big deal,'cept 2 blown tires, 2 blown axles. the non locker did fine, we were impressed!

Top of the World trail is the kind of trail where Jeep people ask, and did ask; How did you get up here?

CVBILL