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westy stove mod: double the flame size!
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targis58
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject: westy stove mod: double the flame size! Reply with quote

So.. I finally put my hands on my slow stove and have come up with double sized flame. A few members have mentioned about this mod but no visual result.

So here it is... Very Happy


The left side is stock and the right side is the mod

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What do you suggest to get rid of the red flame on top of the flame?
I drilled two 1/4 " holes on the side of the intake tube but it didn't do much

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markz2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: westy stove mod: double the flame size! Reply with quote

targis58 wrote:
So.. I finally put my hands on my slow stove and have come up with double sized flame. A few members have mentioned about this mod but no visual result.


Is there a linky to the thread to which you speak?
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targis58
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no thread that I know of...

my mod is based on few posts from here and there.

The mod is basically making the orifice a bit larger. I doubled the size of the orifice from 1/64" to 1/32".

used a carbide bur that I have (1/32") and just used my fingers to rotate the bur to drill the hole

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lloydy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you increased the gas jet by 100%? That burner is designed to run with the correct size nozzle, so the air/gas mix is correct. You have upset that balance, trying to increase the air intake wont really work and it will always be wrong.
You will, as you've seen, now have a bad flame picture. The gas rate on that appliance will now be really high, and it will be producing a lot of CO.
I'm a gas engineer, and would never do what you've done, make sure you cook with the windows open.
Good luck!
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pioneer1
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if you switch to natural gas that modification will work perfect Cool
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targis58
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lloydy wrote:
So, you increased the gas jet by 100%? That burner is designed to run with the correct size nozzle, so the air/gas mix is correct. You have upset that balance, trying to increase the air intake wont really work and it will always be wrong.
You will, as you've seen, now have a bad flame picture. The gas rate on that appliance will now be really high, and it will be producing a lot of CO.
I'm a gas engineer, and would never do what you've done, make sure you cook with the windows open.
Good luck!



Thanks for the warning.

That's why I only modified one burner.

I always leave my windows open when using the stove.

I just have to have my water boil faster than stock. And I always stay next to the stove when using it...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and Tardis58 you are obligated to inform the next owner/operator of the change of design as well.

to fix the flame you'll need to enlarge the combustion airflow alot more than the current supply tube can.
drilling 2 1/4" holes into the side of an already open tube really nets zero gain in airflow. the tube is already exposed to all the air it can flow at the open 'atmosphere" end.
you'd need a larger diam tube to provide more air, not more holes in the existing one.

targis58 wrote:
lloydy wrote:
So, you increased the gas jet by 100%? That burner is designed to run with the correct size nozzle, so the air/gas mix is correct. You have upset that balance, trying to increase the air intake wont really work and it will always be wrong.
You will, as you've seen, now have a bad flame picture. The gas rate on that appliance will now be really high, and it will be producing a lot of CO.
I'm a gas engineer, and would never do what you've done, make sure you cook with the windows open.
Good luck!



Thanks for the warning.

That's why I only modified one burner.

I always leave my windows open when using the stove.

I just have to have my water boil faster than stock. And I always stay next to the stove when using it...
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SCM
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lloydy wrote:

I just have to have my water boil faster than stock. .


I'll be interested to hear if this is the result of your modification. Although the flame is now bigger, red flames are cooler then blue flames. I'm not certain the net change of a bigger cooler flame will result in a faster boiling time.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oi! i didnt say that Laughing

best bet would be one of those rapidboil stoves
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: westy stove mod: double the flame size! Reply with quote

targis58 wrote:

The left side is stock and the right side is the mod

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Maybe my van is a black sheep around here, maybe not: My fridge fires up on propane the first time, every time; and, on "high", my stove's flames (size-wise) looks like the one on the right in your photo. To my knowledge, no modifications have ever been done to my van's kitchen appliances. So, all of those stoves with low-lying flames when turned to "high": Might something else be going on with them (need cleaning out, etc.)?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: westy stove mod: double the flame size! Reply with quote

My stove also fires up easily and has a flame like the one on right side side of the picture
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More trouble: yellow flames = dirty pots (soot).

Like Mom always said...
Please clean, but don't modify your orfice.

Wink

PS - Old gas can give a cold, low flame.
Treat your system to a purge & a fresh batch.
Ask at your propane/RV center...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:

Like Mom always said...
Please clean, but don't modify your orfice.


Thats some funny shit right there!
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Vanagonner
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of making the flame a bit bigger.
I'm concerned that doubling the diameter way more than doubles the area of the hole- I'm guessing over 3x bigger.
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targis58
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

night view

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I did some test if this bigger flame actually boils water faster.

I used 6" diameter kettle and put exactly 24 oz of water in it and timed how long it takes to get to the full boil.

bigger flame took almost 3 min 50 sec. to get there and 8 min 10 sec. for the stock flame.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


bigger flame spread more than 6" wide that there was wasted flame. It could have been shorter than 3"50sec if I had used a bigger pod.

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stock flame spread 4" wide under the 6" diameter kettle.

Over all, I really like the result of this mod
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lloydy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you had the regulator checked out (the one on the LPG tank) could be faulty, by that I mean not letting enough pressure through.
I was checking someone's set up the other day, the complaint was that the heater was running constantly but producing tiny amount of heat. Tested the gas pressure with the appliances running, and it only had 2mbr! You could have a similar problem.
I got to say though, I know it's your van and you can do what you like to it. But if you bought it to me to issue a gas safety cert, I couldn't pass it with a flame picture like that.
Also, as mentioned above, doubling the size of the hole way more than doubles the volume (3/4" copper pipe carries roughly 3 times as much water as a 1/2" copper pipe.)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing that you can regulate the flame down with the stove knob, it doesn't seem like a problem to me. The left burner looks like every Westy stove I have ever seen. Props on the new flame!
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SWbySWesty
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang, over 8 minutes? My unmodified stove boils water faster than that...even at high altitude with COLD water from streams!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SWbySWesty wrote:
...even at high altitude with COLD water from streams!


Just 'cause I'm a science geek - water actually boils at a lower temperature at higher elevations. In fact, at 8k feet and above, boiling water isn't a 100% effective way to kill giardia and other nasties unless you use a pressure cooker.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCM wrote:
Just 'cause I'm a science geek - water actually boils at a lower temperature at higher elevations. In fact, at 8k feet and above, boiling water isn't a 100% effective way to kill giardia and other nasties unless you use a pressure cooker.
I always wondered why it was so effective up there! Thanks!
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