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Blankity blankin' fuel pump.
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Kirk
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the square plastic FI filter for a bus. Figure if it will hold up to the high pressure of a bus FI system, should work fine here.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Stock fuel pressure Reply with quote

Stevie Mc wrote:
What is stock fuel pressure? Is it 35PSI? If so, how will putting the E2000 pump in at 70-95PSI affect the system?


Stock working fuel pressure is 28 to 32 psi. The pressure regulator dumps any excess over that. Very Happy
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64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Kirk
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also wanted to thank everyone that posted (esp. BobNotch) here for the great info and pics. I hope to have my install complete this weekend, and maybe just maybe get the square to move under its own power for the first time in five years.
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Stevie Mc
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.

I am going to try to get this setup complete this weekend.
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Kirk
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay questions:

I m relocating the ranger pump to the center. My car has AC so the fan and the "radiator" cause a bit of a fitment issue. My question first is how does this plate mount back in the center hole of the beam? It was loose and zip tied when I got it. I have the mounting plate and the two little strips of metal that hold it in, I just can't see how it all attaches to the beam. Second, the ranger pump doesn't fit the stock bracket unless I put 10 rounds of tape or something around the pump itself. That shouldn't be an issue tho, right? I just want to make sure this is mounted correctly and it starts with getting the plate to attach to the beam correctly. I have to admit, for future readers, if your car was ordered with AC it's not nearly as easy as it reads here. HA!
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk wrote:
Okay questions:

I m relocating the ranger pump to the center. My car has AC so the fan and the "radiator" cause a bit of a fitment issue. My question first is how does this plate mount back in the center hole of the beam? It was loose and zip tied when I got it. I have the mounting plate and the two little strips of metal that hold it in, I just can't see how it all attaches to the beam. Second, the ranger pump doesn't fit the stock bracket unless I put 10 rounds of tape or something around the pump itself. That shouldn't be an issue tho, right? I just want to make sure this is mounted correctly and it starts with getting the plate to attach to the beam correctly. I have to admit, for future readers, if your car was ordered with AC it's not nearly as easy as it reads here. HA!


The plate mounts off the 2 studs from the pump mount. If you look at the pump bracket, you'll see 2 pieces that are sandwiched together, the lips of those brackets, catch the lip of the beam (top and bottom). The plate just closed off the hole on the right side of the beam. It's really more for cosmetics than anything. Most of us leave that plate off, but use the sandwiched brackets to hold the pump in place.

The E2000 pump "should" have came with a big rubber boot that surrounded the pump (it's about a, 1/8th to a 1/4" thick). With that "boot" in place, it fits the old Bosch pump mount perfectly. I've never had to add anything to get the pump to fit right. Wink
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Kirk
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob, I ever meet you in person imma buy you a beer or a cheeseburger your choice. I realized my issue was that the second rubber "stud" is broken away from the rubber dampner. So I was looking at it like it was two pieces but its one. Ill ditch the plate. Oh and I have the precision pump. The airtexes "replacement" according to the flaps.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk wrote:
Bob, I ever meet you in person imma buy you a beer or a cheeseburger your choice. I realized my issue was that the second rubber "stud" is broken away from the rubber dampner. So I was looking at it like it was two pieces but its one. Ill ditch the plate. Oh and I have the precision pump. The airtexes "replacement" according to the flaps.


Yeah, the rubber mount, should have 2 studs on them. McMaster Carr sells them as replacements, as do a couple of other places (KTPhil found some out in Cali).

You'd have thought that the "precision" pump would have come with the rubber sleeve. I guess they figure that you'd take it off the OE ford pump. Rolling Eyes If you can build the area up with tape, that should work as a substitute.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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TheBigDub
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My '64 Square came engine out. No fuel pump. I bought this pump and then found myself wondering what issues I would have running it on my 6 volt system. Any thoughts?
Trying to get it ready for bug-a-palooza in Chattanooga.
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NDAHAUS
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we can revive this post a little. I recently acquired a 73 SqBck. Did the Airtex E2000 pump conversion per instructions in this thread. Cycled the key a few times and sure enough it fired up and ran on its own. Except for the fuel line after the first two injectors that bridges over to the passenger side was leaking pretty bad. Replaced that section of hose today and went to test, now the car doesn't want to start. If I hold the gas pedal down she will eventually fire but I have to keep it floored just to get it to half @ss run, then quits......anybody knows what gives????
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Donnie strickland
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll need a way to check your fuel pressure; do a search here for "fuel pressure gauge". Replace all your fuel lines (even under the tank) and the filter, then try it again.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donnie strickland wrote:
You'll need a way to check your fuel pressure; do a search here for "fuel pressure gauge". Replace all your fuel lines (even under the tank) and the filter, then try it again.


It's also possible that you've got a leaking injector or 2. Rolling Eyes

For the pressure gauge, I used a 0 to 60 psi tire pressure gauge from Autozone (I unscrewed the gauge from the rest of the unit), and an 1/8th pipe connector, along with a brass hose bib, and a 12 inch section of 5/16ths hose with 2 screw clamps. I've been using that set up for 7 years now. Cool I went with the 0 to 60 gauge, as our working pressure is 28 to 32 psi, and that puts it right in the middle of the gauge (the accurate part of the gauge).

Definitely replace ALL of the hoses in the fuel system, as you'll fix 1 spot, and another will leak. add in that you'll know how old ALL of the hoses are. Wink

Kirk mentioned above, that the Precision pumps don't have the rubber sleeve that the Airtex pumps came with. I found this out too, earlier this year when replacing a pump on a 70 Squareback. The Precision pump was from O'Reilly's (cost 85.99), and I only used part of the foam pad that came with it, on the stock Bosch pump bracket. The Precision pump is a little bit bigger in diameter than the Airtex pump, hence the change to a foam pad for the pump (rather than a rubber sleeve). Just a heads up.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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NDAHAUS
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have replaced some of the lines and I see the PO has done some as well. Next question is for those who have done the Airtex conversion. How many times is necessary to cycle the key prior to starting? And while cranking, any foot on throttle pumping? Mine seems real easy to flood and is a hard starter. But once started she runs fine and shifts fine??? I really want this to be reliable where I can drive and park and not have to worry about getting it started again.

PS....any aircooled guys in southeast Wisconsin?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NDAHAUS wrote:
I have replaced some of the lines and I see the PO has done some as well. Next question is for those who have done the Airtex conversion. How many times is necessary to cycle the key prior to starting? And while cranking, any foot on throttle pumping? Mine seems real easy to flood and is a hard starter. But once started she runs fine and shifts fine??? I really want this to be reliable where I can drive and park and not have to worry about getting it started again.

PS....any aircooled guys in southeast Wisconsin?


On my old 71 Notch, I only had to cycle the key 2 or 3 times, before I would try and start it up. My wife's 70 Fastback needs 3 to 5 times, as it doesn't seem as tight. Put a fuel pressure gauge on it, and have someone cycle the key, so you know what kind of pressure you have from the 2 seconds that the relay is energized (pump on). Do this a couple of times, until you have 28 to 30 psi on the gauge. It might give you a better idea of how my times you need to cycle the key. Also, once you've got the pressure built up, stop and watch (time it) how long it takes to bleed off that pressure. VW says it should fall to 20 psi in about 15 minutes, but my 71 would hold pressure (28 psi) for hours. I'm only mentioning it, as you might have an injector leaking (from not being used in a while), and that's causing a fuel pressure drop.

Also, do you have the Cold Start injector hooked up? If so, it might be trying to help with your flooding condition. I normally disconnect it, and plug the fuel hose leading to it. The CS system is really designed to work somewhere around 32 to 40 degrees (it injects fuel into the plenum when trying to start at those temps) depending on the temp sensor, but I've found without it, that the FI will still start up below 10*F (I've tried it). Very Happy
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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NDAHAUS
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping my fingers crossed somebody has a pic or diagram of this Cold Start Injector and what I would need to do to disable it. This is going to be a spring, summer, fall car and will not subject it to harsh Wisconsin winters.

Waiting to locate a source for remanned brake calipers so I can get it to stop. I can't wait to enjoy this car.

Also learned that the headlights do not come on and my passenger side parking light up front is out, despite putting a new bulb in....all fuses are good. Some things definitely need some attention.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Adney in WI can rebuild your calipers etc like new for reasonable prices keeping your German calipers. Find Jim in the [email protected] chat room as he rarely posts here!
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blues90
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be a stupid question but here goes.

If you replace the stock 3 port pump with the ranger 2 port pump which is only the suction side and pressure side why does the 3 port bosch pump need the return on the pump?

I was looking at the 3 port pump and the return port appears internally piped to the pressure side of the pump then it goes to the same T that is the return from the Pressure regulator .

My guess is this might be a safety feature in case the return line after the regulator gets pinched or somehow blocked which would not allow fuel to flow through the pump thus either burning the pump out because of no circulation or possibly before this happens the pump would stall causing the fuel flow to stop course the flow would stop if the return from the regulator was pinched and the engine would shut down . So it seems it is only there to save the pump from burning up.

I want to get one of these new ranger pumps just in case since mine is at least 30 years old .

I did find the Airtex e2000 for $63 plus shipping and another that looks identical for $50 + shipping Spectra . Shipping is $9 .
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blues90 wrote:
This may be a stupid question but here goes.

If you replace the stock 3 port pump with the ranger 2 port pump which is only the suction side and pressure side why does the 3 port bosch pump need the return on the pump?

I was looking at the 3 port pump and the return port appears internally piped to the pressure side of the pump then it goes to the same T that is the return from the Pressure regulator .

My guess is this might be a safety feature in case the return line after the regulator gets pinched or somehow blocked which would not allow fuel to flow through the pump thus either burning the pump out because of no circulation or possibly before this happens the pump would stall causing the fuel flow to stop course the flow would stop if the return from the regulator was pinched and the engine would shut down . So it seems it is only there to save the pump from burning up.

I want to get one of these new ranger pumps just in case since mine is at least 30 years old .

I did find the Airtex e2000 for $63 plus shipping and another that looks identical for $50 + shipping Spectra . Shipping is $9 .


I'm not really sure why Bosch went with 3 fittings on the pump, but I speculate it was because they had an internal pressure relief built into the pump, as maybe they figured it made too much pressure, so it would bleed off back into the tank return line. Just a SWAG on that. Although according to Jim and Ray, that internal relief valve is failing in a lot of the older pumps (Jim says the rubber tip is wearing away in them).

I have had a few of the Bosch pumps just up and quit making pressure though. I even had Jim rebuild one for me, that later did it again (about 2 years later). After that happened, I switched to the Airtex pump (my wife had to have HER car towed home). Shocked When the Bosch pump quit making pressure on my 71 Notch, I didn't think twice about swapping it to an Airtex pump.

If you can buy the pump cheaper from another source that's great. I prefer to buy mine from a "big store chain" place, as it comes with a lifetime warranty (you HAVE to buy a filter too for the warranty to be good). If you get it local, you can take it back to them IF you have a problem. Last year I replaced a pump on a 70 Square, and it started leaking fuel from the body of the pump. Took it back, and they gave me a new one, no questions asked. Very Happy Most shipping places (USPS, UPS, FED EX) won't touch the box IF it smells like gasoline (if you have to return it).

Oh, and another reason I buy my pumps from the "big box" places, is because I might be out of town, or out of state with the vehicle when I might need to change it. Wink
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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blues90
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bob . It was parts geek I saw the pumps for less but reading their return policy it appears to create a huge hassle if anything goes wrong with the pumps so I can see I would not save much. AutoZone sells them and are a short walk from my apt . With shipping and all it's not worth the $10 I'd save getting one from parts geek .
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blues90
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banjoben wrote:
Be careful guys. the 90-91 ranger pump is not the right one. That is an in-tank style. It will not work on the VW. the inlet connection is for the press-on sock filter, not a hose ,and it does not come with the noise insulating foam rubber around the housing
The one we need is for 88 and older Rangers. it's, like you said, the one on the frame rail.
89-97 Rangers take the E2002. 85-88 take the E2000.
http://www.shepherdautoparts.com/fuel_pump/ford/ranger/1988.html
looks like I still could have ordered it for around $20... Grrrrrrrr.


I looked up the pump you have in the link above . It's a Silla Auto parts brand and is about $27 doesn't have the black foam cover and I have no idea where these pumps are made even if I google Sill Auto Parts. They warrenty it for a year . I'm not certain if not knowing the brand or where it was made if it's worth getting one.
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