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Mal evolent
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2009
Posts: 2912
Location: San Antonio, Nuevo Mexico
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 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject: Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Beetle Basics |
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Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Beetle Basics
The most frequently asked question on this forum:
What is the best year Beetle to make into a baja?
the correct answer, of course, is: None
A better question would be:
"What do I need to know about Beetles before I buy one to Baja?"
Good question. You need to know:
- that there are collectible VWs and disposable VWs
- there are three kinds of front suspension
- there are two kinds of rear suspension
- you can put any suspension on any car
- there is more than one way to mount a different suspension
- you need to make some decisions about how far you are going to go before you buy a beetle. Stage 1 and Stage 2 will deal with these questions.
- you need to know more about Bajas before you can make some decisions about how far you are going to go.
VW Collectibility in very few words:
1938 - 1957: Too valuable to hack up.
1938 - 1960 Weak split case, no synchro first gear transmission.
1958 - 1966: Almost too valuable to hack up. In 1965 They made the windows bigger. If you are a big boy, this can make a difference.
1967: Too many one year only parts, miserable to restore. Talking about interior and body parts, not mechanical.
1968: Another one year only parts car.
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| tundrawolf wrote: |
| What about the 1968 that is unique and one year only? |
It was the only year to have a 4 lug brake drum, swing axle transmission and used a one-year only long swing axle. |
1969 - 1979: Who cares. Not of major interest to collectors. This is the range of cars we want
Front suspension:
Front Suspension FAQ
1938 - 1965 used the linkpin front end. this can be made stronger than a ball joint front end. It can be made to have more wheel travel than stock. There is no reason to do this if you do not modify the rear end to match.
1966 - 1979 used the ball joint front end. not modifiable for more wheel travel. The bottom ball joint comes apart when abused. The cure will be addressed in another chapter.
| buggy fan01 wrote: |
| From my experience, ball joint fronts are not that weak, they are cheaper to build by having new ball joints pressed in, and you can buy raised spindles to get more clearance. I don't know, but I would guess your not gonna put it in the baja race so you might not need extreme wheel travel in front so I would recommend 69 and later so you'll have IRS rear. Just my 2 cents. :D |
| tundrawolf wrote: |
| Lotrat wrote: |
The 66-68 used the fine thread tierod ends. They are weak IMO. I guess VW did too and went to the coarser thread.
Top one is for 66-68, the bottom is 69 and later:
69-74 is the sweet spot.
If you have an all stock, 100% accurate donor, 1972 is the best. |
Couldn't I swap them out? They look interchangeable... |
| Lotrat wrote: |
| tundrawolf wrote: |
| Couldn't I swap them out? They look interchangeable... |
No, they have a different taper. You'll also need to swap out the spindles and pitman arm to make the conversion. Read the fine print on disc brake kits. They tell you that you will need to use 69 or later tierod ends. |
1972 - 1979 Super Beetle: McPherson strut front suspension. Not suitable for off road. But read below, on mixing components
Rear suspension:
1938 - 1968 used the swingaxle rear end. Limited wheel travel. tendency to be unstable at high speeds. Tendency to roll over.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
1968 with autostick had IRS
all european beetles (non-super) through the end of German production retained the swing axle |
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| I think all Mexican beetles have swing rears. |
a mexican beetle is not something you're likely to come across here in the states. occasionally you may see a european model that was imported, though. |
| joescoolcustoms wrote: |
| tko wrote: |
1938 - 1967 used the swingaxle rear end. Limited wheel travel. tendency to be unstable at high speeds. tendency to roll over.
Can someone dissect this a little bit for me? I have a 65 pan with a full length fiberglass buggy body. can you define "limited wheel travel" and "your definition of high speed. and is there a way to tackle this problem.. |
From 1938 to I think 1959 (may be 1960 also, just can't remember right now) used a split case trans are are the weakest. The 1960 and up (including IRS and Bus) are tunnel type with a solid case and stronger than the early versions.
Limited wheel travel means that the axle will only drop so far until it binds up on the inside of the axle where it goes into the differential. Same on upward travel. A total of about 9 inches of travel (some can get just a little more and some just a little less, but very close to 9 anyway). So if you need a lot of travel to soften the energy absorbed from going airborn while jumping, the swing will not get it.
High speed depends on the surface you are running on. I drag race a swing axle trans on asphalt and high speed to me is 150 mph (I currently run 115 mph in the quarter mile). High speed off-road on dirt/sand could be over 40 MPH depending on terrain.
Jack the rear of your buggy up until the rear wheels leave the ground. See how they tuck in on the bottom? If you are running higher speeds on dirt or sand and go around a cornner and the wheel diggs in, it can jack the car up like this and increase the potential to roll over. |
| Mal evolent wrote: |
by limited wheel travel, I mean: what you got is what you get. limited to factory specs.
IRS cars can be modded with longer, wider trailing arms. you aren't limited to what Dr. Porsche decided to use 70 years ago. No point doing this if you don't change the front travel to match.
high speed, in a baja bug, is when the ass end decides it wants to get there first. when you get over enthusiastic with the fun pedal, the back end starts to twitch left and right. more so if you have high positive camber. get a little behind in correcting that, or over correct, and you get to find out how well your roll bar works.
why, yes, now that you ask, I did.
this guy knows what I'm talking about. Note that the rear tires roll on the outside edge:
| GreeneHoosier wrote: |
Swings are tough, but the camber issues are a PITA.
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1968 - 1979: IRS. Stable at speed. modifiable for very long wheel travel. There is no reason to do this if you do not modify the front end to match. you can use the much stronger and better geared bus transmissions.
Mixing components:
Front suspension:
- You can buy linkpin frame heads.
- You can buy ball joint frame heads.
- You can cut a ball joint frame head to make a linkpin fit.
- You can build a roll cage and put any beam front end in any Beetle, including the Super Beetle.
Rear Suspension:
- You can add pivot points and put an IRS rear suspension in any beetle. But you may end up notching the frame horns, which support the engine.
- You can cut the torsion tube off an IRS car and weld it to a swingaxle pan
Putting it all together:
- link pin cars are also swingarm cars. 1938 - 1967
- 1968, ball joint front, swingarm rear.
- IRS cars are also ball joint cars. 1969 - 1979
- linkpin cars in stock form have no advantage over ball joint cars, and the swingarm will try to roll you over. you are hacking a collectible car.
- ball joint cars in stock form have a minor edge regarding the ability to survive minor abuse.
- the optimum combination is linkpin in front, IRS in back. the linkpin needs to be modified to take advantage of its abilities. If long travel is your eventual goal, you want this combination.
- Best years to cut: 1969 on. The IRS is the deciding factor here.
the likelihood of finding an entirely stock Beetle are the same as finding a sweet innocent girl in a bar in a sea port. there is no point going into detail in re which engine and transmission came in which year.
Summary:
- If you don't have a Beetle, look for a 1969 or later. Leave the early cars for the collectors.
- You can put any front end in any beetle, if you have metal fabrication skills and tools.
- You can put any rear end in any beetle, but factory installed IRS does not require notching the frame horns for bigger CV joints or a bus trans. This is the best plan.
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index
_________________
73 Beetle Baja, Ghia front brakes, Type 3 rear brakes, 2220 ( 94 X 80 ), Weber Progressive, Bosch SVDA, '97 Mustang seats
Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Index |
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nlb7928
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2014
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: This is my first time... |
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and that was awesome!
I feel like I'm not a virgin anymore. But I'm smart enough to know that I don't know anything yet. Time to buy a bug! |
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inzel
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 196
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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This is a very informative post. Good work. I have a sand rail and a volks-rod style project. Im really thinking about going away from the rail and putting my energy in to the baja/volks-rod instead
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--inzel--
66 Bug
69 Fasty
Old school Sandrail |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5363
Location: Lefty, CA
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race-desert
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Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 209
Location: ca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:37 am Post subject: |
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great write up Mel! I am confused about a few things, the years writen in the "putting it all together" section. it says
"link pin cars are also swingarm cars. 1938 - 1967
1968, ball joint front, swingarm rear."
I kinda thought link pin ended in 65 which it does say early in write up?!?! then a 66 is also a balljoint, swing ,5-lug?
and as a side note mentioned earlier in , that 67- ball joint, swing, 5 lug
68 (non autos)- ball joint, swing, 4 lug
Again great write up!! not trying to nit-pick, just trying to keep my mind straight! |
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inzel
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014
Posts: 196
Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
One thing to remember is that you can not go/climb or do what a rail can with a Baja (will maybe if you really threw $$$ at it). However, you will be doing it in a LOT warner environment  |
What I am more interested in is being able to drive on teh streets with it. Its getting harder and harder to make a rail street legal in WA. I can title the baja/rod with no problem and use it for street and off road when I feel like it.
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--inzel--
66 Bug
69 Fasty
Old school Sandrail |
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DarkAlchemy15
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2015
Posts: 1
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mal Thank you for putting this together. It's very helpful for us newbies. |
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tommmalone
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2016
Posts: 2
Location: Sacramento Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Baja Bugs for Volkswagen Virgins: Beetle Basics |
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| This is awesome and super simple! Thanks! |
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