Author |
Message |
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
|
|
Going to let the circus thread fall away and die. As many have said, it was ridiculous. I will try to transfer all of the pertinent info into this one and I will definitely post only questions or results about the impending build.
So this is what I have and what has been decided upon.
2176- no bigger, no smaller
78.4 mm forged cw crank
AA h beam rods 5.4's
AA 94's
RockCrusher special blend of the good stuff in a set of Mofoco 42x37.5 heads with dual springs
Engle FK44
Engle lifters
Trim to length cheomoly pushrods
Glenn Ring rebuilt 010 distributor
dual Dellorto 48's
RockCrusher o-ringed oil pump
Gene Berg deep sump
Low buggett traction bar- cheaper than the Berg and for what it is I can't see spending Berg prices
CB performance 1.4 rockers
CB performance c-channel valve covers
Custom made( bought from a vendor here in the classifieds )polished aluminum breather box
CB performance aluminum case full flowed and stroker clearanced.
I'll add information as I go and try to add the good info that I've gotten from folks here in the last couple of months so that everything will be able to be tracked or looked up much easier. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
66brm-about me puttingthe it together...I know a guy with a ton of experience, but I know enough that some of what he says drives me crazy.....he swears that all deep sumps leak and that a build like mine doesn't need one and that its really mot needed on a big motor.....that one little thing tells me to put it together myself.....or rather with the help and advice of folks on here.....2.5 quarts of oil is fine for 56HP.....but not for something pushing more than 150.......
....and sorry about the thread move....just got tired of the clowning....by myself and others. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I will not be using Brad Penn like many here use. I'll be using Amsoil z-rod 10w-30 synthetic as well as Amsoil break in oil. This oil is designed specifically for high horsepower flat tappet solid lifter motors. Can't go wrong with that. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The torque specs for this build on an aluminum case platform will be 15-16 ft lbs for 8mm fasteners.....18 ft lbs for head and rocker studs. The main case studs will be torqued to 30 ft lbs. The book says 250 for the gland nut bit I think it should be 350 for this build?
Not sure about the strainer plate.....
Not sure about the carb manifolds....
15-16 for the oil pump but since its an o ringed pump by Paul I'll let him tell me.
Exhaust headers I'm not sure..... _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No small talk, ok
(!!vote for me!! I need a vacation )
it is true that you don't ABSOLUTELY need a 1.5 quart deep sump, but
At the least I'd want a mini-sump, and extend the pickup 1" down and weld a washer on the end of the pickup for "anti-slurp" effect. I know your 135 tires will limit g-forces but even so, you don't want to lose pressure pulling out of a a turn. The oil light flashing on for a sec is distracting
Torque with oil
Main studs-30
8mm head and rocker-18
other 8mm-15
some folks will torque an 8mm fastener higher, but by rights 18 is the max with oil/arp lube for the grade of hardware on 99% of this stuff. Torquing higher is fine if you buy those race studs that nobody is willing to buy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Like I said it depends on how you feel about it, get him to slap the long block together and do the rest yourself or work through it step by step with the information you have gleaned from the forums here. Its not overly difficult, just get all the measurments right during mock up and then slap it together with some glue, grease and JB weld, pop a couple of Advil and it'll be fine _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
modok wrote: |
No small talk, ok
(!!vote for me!! I need a vacation )
it is true that you don't ABSOLUTELY need a 1.5 quart deep sump, but
At the least I'd want a mini-sump, and extend the pickup 1" down and weld a washer on the end of the pickup for "anti-slurp" effect. I know your 135 tires will limit g-forces but even so, you don't want to lose pressure pulling out of a a turn. The oil light flashing on for a sec is distracting
Torque with oil
Main studs-30
8mm head and rocker-18
other 8mm-15
some folks will torque an 8mm fastener higher, but by rights 18 is the max with oil/arp lube for the grade of hardware on 99% of this stuff. Torquing higher is fine if you buy those race studs that nobody is willing to buy |
Okay, I've seen that before about torquing with oil to help keep the threads from seizing and giving a false torque reading, but do you do it with oil and loctite on there at the same time? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
66brm wrote: |
Like I said it depends on how you feel about it, get him to slap the long block together and do the rest yourself or work through it step by step with the information you have gleaned from the forums here. Its not overly difficult, just get all the measurments right during mock up and then slap it together with some glue, grease and JB weld, pop a couple of Advil and it'll be fine |
Yeah well I laughed my ass off at that one....got a bit of everything in there....
Exactly though, I don't feel good about it....he also busted a piece of the barrell trying to smash it in with a rubber mallet and busted a ring because he was in such a damn hurry to get it in the cylinder.....not what I would call paying atention to detail....
I'm slow as hell with this build anyway so I'll just buy the calipers and measuring devices that I'll need and do it all myself....I'm sure it will be slow going but who cares, as long as its right.
By the way, can anyone give me a list of these tools that I NEED to have in order to accomplish this build the pro's way? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I torque all the case bolts and rod bolts and even gland nut threads with just oil, but I do locktite the case savers and flywheel dowel area.
The head studs is a good question, I also just use oil on them, yes, they kinda leak
You might add a pound or two(10%) for the lower head studs, or any fastener, when using a sealant or locktite on the threads rather than oil. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
modok wrote: |
I torque all the case bolts and rod bolts and even gland nut threads with just oil, but I do locktite the case savers and flywheel dowel area.
The head studs is a good question, I also just use oil on them, yes, they kinda leak
You might add a pound or two(10%) for the lower head studs, or any fastener, when using a sealant or locktite on the threads rather than oil. |
Thats what I was looking for....thanks. Had a massive HA today and took advil for it......that shit really works! _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Tools, I like tools, start with internal and external micrometers 1-2"range, dial indicator with magnetic stand, feeler guages, a pair of V blocks, for 94mm pistons 3-4" internal/external micrometers, quality torque wrenches 1/4" and 1/2" drive with 8,10,13,15,17,19mm sockets.
That should eat up about 1-2 weeks wages, then look at consumables, sealants, flexiguage etc _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
66brm wrote: |
Tools, I like tools, start with internal and external micrometers 1-2"range, dial indicator with magnetic stand, feeler guages, a pair of V blocks, for 94mm pistons 3-4" internal/external micrometers, quality torque wrenches 1/4" and 1/2" drive with 8,10,13,15,17,19mm sockets.
That should eat up about 1-2 weeks wages, then look at consumables, sealants, flexiguage etc |
Yeah, I like tools also.....and they're also expensive, which for some crazy reason, I like
I've got the feeler guages...1/2 inch drive torque wrench...all of the sockets...
For the 1/4 inch torque wrench should I get ft lbs and also an inch lbs wrench?
And, what are V blocks?
And as far as how to use these lovely tools correctly, I'll chime in with those questions once I have these lovely tools and I'm starting to do the work _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you want to buy measuring tools--
The china micrometers and dial indicators at harbor freight are ok, heck buy several of each they are so cheap.
The standards and snap gauges are junk, buy these from starret, and you
will get your $ worth
You can live without v-blocks |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Actually you can scratch the V blocks as you can use a case half to achieve the same result, they are/were a pair of steel blocks with a V machined into them to hold things when you measure runout, but you don't need them
These guys do some nice stuff too
http://www.mitutoyo.com/ _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
66brm wrote: |
Actually you can scratch the V blocks as you can use a case half to achieve the same result, they are/were a pair of steel blocks with a V machined into them to hold things when you measure runout, but you don't need them |
I'll have to remember that one, seeing as I don't have a clue to what that means.....I'm a complete noob amateur, but I'm going to do this, man! _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
66brm wrote: |
Actually you can scratch the V blocks as you can use a case half to achieve the same result, they are/were a pair of steel blocks with a V machined into them to hold things when you measure runout, but you don't need them |
I'll have to remember that one, seeing as I don't have a clue to what that means.....I'm a complete noob amateur, but I'm going to do this, man! |
Runout=wobble, think of an over weight dude walking down the street, look at his belly, thats runout _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
ralf Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008 Posts: 1215 Location: r4
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
66brm wrote: |
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
66brm wrote: |
Actually you can scratch the V blocks as you can use a case half to achieve the same result, they are/were a pair of steel blocks with a V machined into them to hold things when you measure runout, but you don't need them |
I'll have to remember that one, seeing as I don't have a clue to what that means.....I'm a complete noob amateur, but I'm going to do this, man! |
Runout=wobble, think of an over weight dude walking down the street, look at his belly, thats runout |
hey man that was uncalled for!
now everyone knows i have a belly hahahaha
also 5lug, have urself pm paul/RC since he is doing the case work, he may have some suggestions on case fastening, although i do like modok anyways
or if u have time (gosh let not make this thread long) get dial bore guages and mics
this way if u already have a dial indicator/stand
u can check run out...
then use the mics to measure the main journals OD , write it down on a piece of paper , a scrap paper so u accidentally throw it away
then use the dial bore guage, zero it out by way of the mic's measurement on the main journals
and doodle urself into the tunnel bore of the mains with ur case torqued
see how much oil clearance u have... and throw the numbers here for us (many experts will comment on ur numbers to help... not me lol)
ofcourse with main bearings installed,
thats a bit of technical contribution i can give... because i chatted with 66brm haha _________________ Flow Through a Curved Conduit
porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok....complicated.....what's a good book to get that explains all of this.....that way I don't have to post a gazillion questions that could easily be answered by a book......
I think I understand runout as the crank not being perfectly straight and the cam not being perfectly straight....is this correct? _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ralf Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2008 Posts: 1215 Location: r4
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i may have complicated the wording.. its really simple to do
wat ur gona measure is oil clearance, some have different terms
like bearing clearance etc
basically the gap between the crank's main journal and the main bearing's face
where oil rids....
use the main journals as rereference "zero" by using a micrometer
then use the micrometer's set measurement (locked in mic) and zero your dial bore guage to it....
now insert that on the main tunnel of a torqued case with main bearings it will show u the difference in " how far the journals are from the face of the bearings = oil clearance
in a nut shell
cranks main journal OD vs main bearings ID the difference/clearance between the two _________________ Flow Through a Curved Conduit
porting my SP head for my brother's project
https://youtu.be/OS_mVjQuqgk
Last edited by ralf on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
66brm Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010 Posts: 3676 Location: Perth Western Australia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yep you got it but you can also check runout on the flywheel too
If you don't like picturing a fat dude, try a hot chick swinging a hula hoop, its more to my taste as well _________________ Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval
modok wrote: |
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|