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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15303
Location: Deep in the 405
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 Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Synth is a lot easier to shift when it gets below freezing outside.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Synth is a lot easier to shift when it gets below freezing outside. |
Okay. I'll stick with synthetic GL5.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Vroom vroom.....any of the naysayers want to cruise on up to Oregon and run it? I've only got a "lazy" XR310. ....Lol......  ......this motor is badass  ......170 hp? Nope.....it's pushing at least 185.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15303
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| Vroom vroom.....any of the naysayers want to cruise on up to Oregon and run it? I've only got a "lazy" XR310. ....Lol...... ......this motor is badass ......170 hp? Nope.....it's pushing at least 185. |
Run the car down the 1/4 mile and post the time slip. We can tell you how much HP you really have.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Ive never seen any eaten up brass from my gl5, synthetic I run.penisoil synthetic marine stuff. of corse like everything I do add some other things to it.annjamimas mapole suryp makes it real stickey to climb the gears better than mucas crap......  ( no i aint tellen all of what I put in, thats my disclaimer). |
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MURZI
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:57 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| Vroom vroom.....any of the naysayers want to cruise on up to Oregon and run it? I've only got a "lazy" XR310. ....Lol...... ......this motor is badass ......170 hp? Nope.....it's pushing at least 185. |
Run the car down the 1/4 mile and post the time slip. We can tell you how much HP you really have. |
I built almost the exact engine for a friend. 12.70's @ 106-7 at 1900lb in a 1967 beetle. What HP is that...
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62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| MURZI wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
| Vroom vroom.....any of the naysayers want to cruise on up to Oregon and run it? I've only got a "lazy" XR310. ....Lol...... ......this motor is badass ......170 hp? Nope.....it's pushing at least 185. |
Run the car down the 1/4 mile and post the time slip. We can tell you how much HP you really have. |
I built almost the exact engine for a friend. 12.70's @ 106-7 at 1900lb in a 1967 beetle. What HP is that... |
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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74 Thing
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004
Posts: 7390
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| I put Murzi's numbers in an online calculator and one indicated 168HP and the other 180HP-so average them out at 174. |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Either way....plenty happy with it. Sucked the intake gasket on the 3-4 side. Talked to Dave at CB and he said they'll use Loctite 518 on heads with big ports...no gasket. Sounds good to me. Oil temps were at their highest when I noticed the intake leak on the 1-2 side that was also causing a chirp chirp sound. Put on a new gasket and oil temps dropped. Noticed a chirp chirp sound slightly less audible on the 1-2 side accompanied with rising oil temps again.....makes sense....vacuum leak at manifold essentially causing it to run lean. Lean equals hot. Ordered the 518 and 3 sets of new big beef manifold gaskets. I'll put new gaskets on again amd torque the itake manifold bolts a little at a time alternating bolts and see if that helps to seal the gasket better. They suck another gasket and I'll try the 518.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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MURZI
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:49 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| 74 Thing wrote: |
| I put Murzi's numbers in an online calculator and one indicated 168HP and the other 180HP-so average them out at 174. |
Most of those online calculators are flawed as they are designed for BIG heavy cars. Maybe someone like Neil68 can chime in with actual HP numbers it took him to run different times. I believe 174 is on the low side.... for 106-7 mph in a car that weighs 1965lbs with driver. No matter what the HP... sub 13's in a N/A beetle on the street in hauling...at least for me.
_________________
62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5966
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:42 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| modok wrote: |
Add the venturi ring and try it. Cut the scoop off and try it. If buying an entirety new shroud and cooler would improve matters then go ahead, but I don't know it would. |
I really wanted to try these one at a time to see which made the biggest difference, but ended up doing them all at once. And the result was notable and good (larger t4 cooler, enlarged intake slot, and venturi ring). The venturi ring, that little widget makes a very obvious difference. Sucked some of my wiring harness right off the firewall, and will try to drag your hand in as well. The suction it creates is much greater than with no ring.
And yes, the urethane mounts blow. The bolts come loose and they want to fall off,because they know they don't belong there. If you have a mid mount and frame horn brace set correctly, good stock mounts will handle more abuse than people think. I've not tried the CB rhino mounts, but people do seem to like them.
SD
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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ALB
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:32 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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30 years ago the red poly trans mounts sucked and they haven't gotten any better. We keep trying to tell people not to waste their money but they won't listen...
As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al
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On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:43 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| esde wrote: |
| modok wrote: |
Add the venturi ring and try it. Cut the scoop off and try it. If buying an entirety new shroud and cooler would improve matters then go ahead, but I don't know it would. |
I really wanted to try these one at a time to see which made the biggest difference, but ended up doing them all at once. And the result was notable and good (larger t4 cooler, enlarged intake slot, and venturi ring). The venturi ring, that little widget makes a very obvious difference. Sucked some of my wiring harness right off the firewall, and will try to drag your hand in as well. The suction it creates is much greater than with no ring.
And yes, the urethane mounts blow. The bolts come loose and they want to fall off,because they know they don't belong there. If you have a mid mount and frame horn brace set correctly, good stock mounts will handle more abuse than people think. I've not tried the CB rhino mounts, but people do seem to like them.
SD |
I added venturi ring to my shroud. I believe I've diagnosed the problem. Not only did I use the smaller 8mm and not 10mm oil cooler seals, I torqued that bitch down like I was on steroids. Those passages have got to be tiny. The vacuum leaks at the i takes aren't helping either....I saw the oil temps improve immediately after I fixed the 1-2 side that sucked the gasket. Now the 3-4 side has sucked the gasket.....I can hear it on acceleration. Head temps are great. I just picked up a bag of 10mm donut gaskets for the cooler and will be torqu8ng cooler nuts to 5ft lbs. Problem should disappsar immediately.
I remember an old VW guy when I was a kid telling me about not tightening those past spec as if will cause the holes in the donut gasket to squeeze much smaller and cause your oil temps to rise....cooler isn't getting a good, unobstructed flow of oil through it. Stupid me but it'll be fixed this weekend. And I got some 518 that CB recommends to use with heads that have big intake ports.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| ALB wrote: |
30 years ago the red poly trans mounts sucked and they haven't gotten any better. We keep trying to tell people not to waste their money but they won't listen...
As usual, just my 2 1/2 cents (I'm Canadian, eh). Al |
I got the black ones.....still poly....still suck. Hahahaha....they couldn't handle the power
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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| Back to top |
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Brian_e
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 3284
Location: Rapid City, SD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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Don't use gaskets when you use the 518. The head surface should be flat. Make sure the manifold face is sanded flat. Apply a thin bead of 518 to the head, and bolt them together. No gasket. The gaskets just keep it from tightening down so they will work loose again. Think case halve parting line.
Brian |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| Brian_e wrote: |
Don't use gaskets when you use the 518. The head surface should be flat. Make sure the manifold face is sanded flat. Apply a thin bead of 518 to the head, and bolt them together. No gasket. The gaskets just keep it from tightening down so they will work loose again. Think case halve parting line.
Brian |
Yep
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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| Back to top |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26781
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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The oil cooler seals are made to work in such a way that you tighten the parts and they will come together metal to metal, and the springiness of the o-ring does the sealing. So... the torque should be appropriate for the bolts used but should not make any difference to the seals.
I think you had the wrong seals in there, or they didn't fit right for some reason or another.
It is true the gasket sets come with a large number of them useless seals, which might be confusing.
It might also be the intake gaskets would be better off thinner. .015-.020 thick material. I don't really know how thick yours are but if they are just the same type ones that they include with buying manifolds.....those are quite thick! |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| just remember leen cracks heads, and leen can also drop seats. dont leen on it when its not right. I kinda do like 2 things bug poop made...the "O"ring cam plug and...the..paper oil cooler gasket.I like the gaskets better than the seals.no restriction at all. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26781
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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If you ask me, just as a general principle, using an o-ring is always a bad idea. I have so many stories about o-ring disasters, I could wright a book about it.
Good luck with your 0-ring cam plug mark  It might be real handy but if it leaks......sure not easy to change, is it |
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fivelugshortaxle
Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011
Posts: 4254
Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: 2176cc's for my Type1 |
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| modok wrote: |
The oil cooler seals are made to work in such a way that you tighten the parts and they will come together metal to metal, and the springiness of the o-ring does the sealing. So... the torque should be appropriate for the bolts used but should not make any difference to the seals.
I think you had the wrong seals in there, or they didn't fit right for some reason or another.
It is true the gasket sets come with a large number of them useless seals, which might be confusing.
It might also be the intake gaskets would be better off thinner. .015-.020 thick material. I don't really know how thick yours are but if they are just the same type ones that they include with buying manifolds.....those are quite thick! |
My cooler seals were the smaller 8mm ones....I should have used the 10mm ones. And yes, the gaskets aren't very thin. I'm going to try the gaskets again witb a tad bit of the orange, gold rtv ....very thin coat on both sides of gasket....and todque the nuts down a little at a time alternating nuts.
_________________
Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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