Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia

[bobnorman]

Hey all, first time posting to the ghia forum.

I have a 1966 ghia that belonged to my father. He bought it in the early 70s from my uncle and drove it year-round until he finally took it off the road in the early 80s (I remember driving on the highway, watching the pavement fly by through the gap between what was left of the floor and the heater channel. Every time we went over a bump it opened wider). Anyway, the ghia was garaged, but dad was determined to eventually get this thing back on the road, and had started to restore it. With limited access to body parts he had started fabricating on his own, with what he had (mostly sheet metal and pop rivets). He bought a ‘65 which was more rusty than his but had a straighter front end, and cut that off to be grafted on the ‘66. It was one of those things that he was going to get around to finishing, but other projects, and other issues, came and went and he never did get to finish it.

So, fast forward through the years to now. His VW collection is being sold off and I had the task of cleaning out his garage. At first I had no intention of keeping his car, until my wife asked me about it… that got me thinking. I know that anyone buying this car would simply scrap it. The only thing that’s not rusty on the body is the windows, and I’m not sure about them… I thought that it would be great to do this, to keep the car alive and in the family, but the thoughts of dealing with that mess… Then it dawned on me: Find a half decent body and put that on dad’s chassis. Amazingly, I found a person with a rust free ’66 ghia body in Seattle that was willing to sell it to me for a reasonable price. Perhaps the gods were smiling upon me, as I thought it would be like finding hen’s teeth!

With that, I moved dad's ghia to my home 200 miles away and into her new garage.

the new home:

So Having moved dad's car, I’ve since been back and forth with the seller of the solid 66 body who, upon hearing my story, has bent over backwards to make this all happen. I cannot say enough about how wonderful she has been. This has been going on since early August, and there have been times when I thought it wouldn’t happen, but she has stayed with it.

Here is the body:

So, the short version of the body saga is: The car has now been cut into three pieces (for transport and for customs) and now, in two day’s time, will be trailered by my sister and her friend across the border to my sister’s home in BC. From there I still have to figure how to get it clear across Canada, but for now my main concern has been, and in some respects still is, crossing the border.

I think I have everything lined up, and all the research the seller has done (including an email from their local US border crossing agent) indicates that no title will be needed, and they will consider this “body tin” which is what it is, as it will never be licensed as the car that it once was. It’s a front clip, a rear end, and a roof. All that should be needed is a bill of sale. On the Canadian side, she talked to our Customs people, and was directed to the tariff schedule 87.07 which indicates that the classification Body Tin is a part, and sets out a taxation rate (6%), so that looks good.

My one doubt is, when I started this process way back, I emailed the US Customs at a Washington/BC border crossing, and they told me that I would need title. When I asked if it was considered parts if it was just a shell (no drivetrain, chassis, interior, etc) the answer was no, it needs a title. When I responded that it would be cut into pieces and asked when a car ceased being a car and became parts, the answer I got was: “Title still required”. All this was prior to the seller checking, and getting the opposite answer that it was ok to go without title, as it would be considered parts. So, my sister will be bringing a copy of the email the seller got from customs with her, as well as the Canadian tariff schedule, but I’m still a bit nervous.

So, long way of asking this, but does anyone have experiences to share? Good or bad, with crossing the border with a body shell or pile of parts?

Thanks,
Bob

[Gary]

So, are you crossing from the US into Canada or vice-versa? It sounds like you're heading from the US to BC, but I couldn't be certain. Anyway, I hauled a shell of a Bus from Illinois to Ontario a few years ago and all I had was the signed bill of sale stating the vehicle had been sold for $50. The Canadian customs people didn't have a problem with that and my friend across the border paid his whopping $3-and-change in import duty.
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[cefolar]

I don't know why the US would have an issue - - I thought for any VW the VIN and title was associated with the actual pan and not the body (does the body even have a VIN?).

There was a company several years ago that was making "new" old beetles by bringing all the pieces from Mexico and assembling them on US registered pans.

Good luck with it - - sounds like an adventure. I would strap to a trailer take your bill of sale and when you get to the border plead ignorance. This is one of those situations where you may be trying to make yourself "over informed".

[swhitcomb]

Are you parting the Thing in the pics? PM me please if u are.
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My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster

[Gary]

[djkeev]

My experiences of entering Canada is that they don't much care what you are bringing in (though I never transported auto parts). I've found that the US Customs are real PISS ANTS about what you are bringing here from Canada though!!

Give it a try, go when it isn't busy, be friendly and honest. Hope and pray that the Canadian Customs agent didn't have a huge fight with his wife that morning!!

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[swhitcomb]

[kdcaul]

Hi Bob,

I have crossed the boarder at Peace Arch with smaller Ghia parts in a vechile with no problem;but not as ambitious as a parted Ghia.I do know that there are several points of crossing into B.C..so if they are denied at one they could try another.

Had your dad's Ghia spent it's whole life on the rock? Growing up in St John's I did not see many Ghias.

Good luck in getting her home.

[Gary]

[bobnorman]

Thanks for the info and advice everyone. So, it seems that I’m over thinking this, and that I should be able to get this done very easily with just a bill of sale. As I said, my only concern was that I had conflicting information from two different border agents, with one saying that I definitely had to have title to cross.

I think part of my concern here has to do with the fact that I’m actually 3000 mile away in Newfoundland, on the other side of the country, and my sister is the one doing the actually crossing for me... Just nervous for her that it all goes well.

Thanks again everyone, tomorrow is the big day. Oh and to KD Caul, Yes the car was in NL from new, I think it was bought at the dealer in Clarenville originally. You grew up in Town hey? Nice to meet another Nflder here, This Samba thing is great!

Cheers,
Bob

[Gratsoy]

A family employee was bringing an old chev across to be used as a parts car for a restoration. He was coming across the Washington/BC boarder and got stopped by a guard. This car was a total wreck and was only good for a few parts, but the guard swore that it was restorable and tried to make him pay duty for importing it as a fully licensed vehicle, claiming that it would just be put on the road.

Ended up paying a shop to cut the thing up so it could be taken across as parts.

[Bruce]

He should have asked to see the Super.

To the OP, I think you made a mistake cutting it up. There was no need to do that. Tell your sister that she should call it a "body part" Not body tin. That way you are telling them the same rules for importing a car door or a fender apply. No VIN required. In fact, make sure the original VIN tag is not on it. Then there will be no VIN for anyone to argue that it is a car. If anyone demands a title, ask them how they are going to know that title is for this body that has no VIN?

If they rented a closed trailer then put the parts in it, as they pass buy the US Customs, they won't know what's inside. What they don't know won't hurt them.

There is NO duty on it. Since it is a body part for a car more than 25 years old, NO duty should be paid. Their books call a car part more than 25 years old an "antique auto part". This is the magical term most of them know. It tells them duty free. If they try to charge her duty, tell her to ask for the Super. (the "Super" is their internal lingo for the superintendent).

You will have to pay HST at 12%. Whoever told you 6% is smoking crack.

I've imported exactly this same thing before, a stripped body shell. It's not a car or a vehicle. More recently, a friend imported a 67 Beetle body, stripped of most of it's parts and not attached to it's original pan. He had both the body and it's pan in on the same trailer. According to customs, not a car, not a vehicle. No title needed.
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[bobnorman]

Thanks everyone,

So, it went across the border with no hassle whatsoever. I didn't even have to pay duty.

Bruce, as for cutting it up, it was mostly for transport (though, I figured it wouldn't hurt my case for customs either), my sister was bringing this thing up from Seattle for me in a small trailer (I live 3000 miles away), and I knew she'd be struggling with the offloading etc... It wasn't a roller with no dolly wheels or anything there, so this seemed to be the easiest choice for all involved. That said, I've now got to figure out how to get three pieces of a Ghia clear across Canada. Thoughts anyone?

I don't think its going to be that big of a deal to get it back together on my chassis with new pans.. I'll just take my time and measure, then re-measure then tack, then measure again. The PO gave me the original front and back windscreens, so they'll come in handy for alignment as well.

[djkeev]

[Bruce]

[djkeev]

[bobnorman]

Yeah, looking at the wrong measurement there… as the Canada goose flies 3100 miles, as the road turns more like 4400.

Either way, given the distance, and the ferry time, I won’t be doing it in a week! I couldn’t get there in a week, let alone there and back. I wonder if Santa is coming this way…maybe he could toss it aboard!

[djkeev]

My brother has a house out that way in Western Canada, He comes this way about once a year but I really doubt that I can convince him, or that he would be willing, to strap a cut apart Ghia to a Newer VW Weekender Van!!!

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[bobnorman]

So I thought it might be time for a little update. The ’66 body from Seattle is in BC, safe under my sister’s carport, albeit in three pieces.

I’ve had a few discussions with different shipping companies about getting it shipped down here to Newfoundland, pretty much all have said the same thing, basically they either want a running car, or they want a crate they can move.

With that in mind I’d been pondering what to do here. I knew a while ago that I’d be having a business trip overseas in the fall, and that it could take me through Vancouver. So, long story short, I was in BC last week and managed to take a day and build a crate for this thing (Asian flu and all). I’ve now got it in a package 3’x10’ x6’high, complete with rolling dollies underneath.

This was my first time seeing the car in person and I must say, I was shocked at how rust free this body is; sills were straight and solid, as was the battery area, lower front and rear fenders, and anywhere else I looked. All the usual rust traps have nice solid thick metal. I was expecting a fairly decent car, from the pictures and from the sellers say-so, but this was beyond my expectations and is a lovely surprise and a huge relief. Where the car has been cut I can shine a light and see inside of the heater channels, I see og primer… wow . There’s a slight bit of damage to the right headlight area, but what appears in pictures to be cracks or scratches, is actually remnants of some sort of plastic wrap that the car was encased in at one point, the stuff has stuck to the body all over the place, and may have helped protect it.

Another treat was that along with the front & rear glass and nosebadge, the seller had included a couple new (in wrapper) door trim pieces, as well a brand new headliner! God bless her cotton socks!

Now that the packaging of this thing is sorted, the next part of this, likely world’s slowest, KG build is to get it here. So, if anyone has any leads on good shipping companies that might be interested on taking this thing cross-country, I’m all ears.

[bobnorman]

So, time for another update, the Ghia body finally arrived at my house yesterday. Funny enough exactly one year since I last posted!

It’s a bit of a long story, but in the end I managed to find a broker to arrange to have it shipped to me here for a reasonable rate. I started talking to them about it in April, but the transport company needed someone to sign for it when they picked it up, which was a bit of a problem for me, as they could only pick it up 9-5 Monday to Friday. I had another business trip to China in September so I decided to wait until then, spent a few days in Vancouver on the way back and was there to sign for shipment on September 9th.

As they pulled out of the driveway, I got a funny feeling, thinking about the good rate that I got, and started to wonder if I’d ever see it again. Maybe I was feeling that way because it’s been so long getting to this point. I forgot to take pics while loading it, but grabbed my phone and got a snap of them pulling away.

Once it got here there was a bit of a mix up (they didn’t have the right phone number for me, left messages on my home phone while I was at work) and they ended up off loading it at a local transport company’s dock, instead of delivering to my door. Also, the driver told me that he needed a dock to offload, as his truck didn’t have a ramp. Long story short I ended up driving over and picking it up myself. I was focused on getting it home in the back of an F-150 without it tipping over or falling out, and neglected to take pictures at the dock, or while it was in the pan.

I did take a few snaps when I was unloading it in my driveway though.

I managed to unload it myself (that wasn’t easy). I’m happy to have the car, however there was some damage, the nose is dented in

and one rear quarter is also dented from slamming into the dash.

Also two of the platform dolly wheels were snapped off, looks like it had a bit of a hard journey. It was well secured in the crate, so it seems like it would have had to have taken a pretty hard knock to cause it to shift enough to do that damage. I noticed too that the shipping blanket I had wrapped the front and rear windscreen in was gone. The glass had been unwrapped and laid back inside the car.

The shipping agent is looking into it, and I have not yet paid for anything, so you never know, all that said, I’m still just happy to have it here, and I can pound out the dents, I’m going to have to do body work anyway, and the nose already had some work done on it from before judging by the skim of bondo.

So now it sits in my garage, along with the other projects waiting for me. Currently doing renos on the house, looking at buying another property and I have twins on the way! So, the rate at which this car gets done could be geologic. We’ll see what time I have, for now I’d just like to get it unpacked.