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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
It looks like your pans are too short at the back? I am having the same problem - the flange has 3 dimples for each hole except the one at the back which only has 2 because the pans are too short. There is enough overlap onto the lip on the chassis to weld them in but it will mean I end up with a gap that I will have to fill with seam sealer rather than having the pans sit flush.
They make the pans 3/4" too wide but 1/2" too short. I have had to do a lot of work to make these crappy aftermarket pans fit, including cutting and welding the jack mounts because they don't fit. |
I wouldn’t say that the pan is too short, it kinda looks that way in the picture as my rear cross member is missing. Once I get that back I think it should fit, maybe off by an 1/8th. As for the quality of the pans, I agree, parts of the pressing and the relief welds are not great. It’s one of the reasons I’m ditching the rear portion and trying to rebuild the original part. Also, I’m going to trim up the outer edge as that’s too wide and not even.
From what I’ve discovered, all the Ghia pans (with the exception of the Gerson pans) are from the same manufacturer, regardless of who’s sticker (Dansk or Klokkerholm) is on it.
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
It looks like your pans are too short at the back? I am having the same problem - the flange has 3 dimples for each hole except the one at the back which only has 2 because the pans are too short. There is enough overlap onto the lip on the chassis to weld them in but it will mean I end up with a gap that I will have to fill with seam sealer rather than having the pans sit flush.
They make the pans 3/4" too wide but 1/2" too short. I have had to do a lot of work to make these crappy aftermarket pans fit, including cutting and welding the jack mounts because they don't fit. |
I wouldn’t say that the pan is too short, it kinda looks that way in the picture as my rear cross member is missing. Once I get that back I think it should fit, maybe off by an 1/8th. As for the quality of the pans, I agree, parts of the pressing and the relief welds are not great. It’s one of the reasons I’m ditching the rear portion and trying to rebuild the original part. Also, I’m going to trim up the outer edge as that’s too wide and not even.
From what I’ve discovered, all the Ghia pans (with the exception of the Gerson pans) are from the same manufacturer, regardless of who’s sticker (Dansk or Klokkerholm) is on it. |
Difference in quality/shape of pans from earlier in this thread. I want to ditch this because of the poor quality, plus I want the earlier/correct look.
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Mellow Yellow 74
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:19 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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I agree the welds that the repro pans come with are rough but you can grind and linish them so they look a bit better. Also, all the ripples in the pans can be removed by doing hot shrinks with an oxy/acetylene torch and using a hammer and dolly.
Although the repro pans don't fit great I would think twice about cutting and welding like you are planning unless you are a good welder - that is quite a lot of butt welding in thin sheet metal and you really want to be sure you get good strong welds.
I understand they are not original and don't look the best but given the rear of the pans are under the back seat you will never see them and at least you know they will be strong enough. I think I will end up with a decent result, it it just a lot of work to get there.
It is disappointing that repro pans for Ghia's are such poor quality and do not have all the attachments such as seat rails when you can buy bug pans which are good quality with all the attachments already fitted for a similar price. I guess this is because the market for bugs is so much bigger than ghia's.
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
I agree the welds that the repro pans come with are rough but you can grind and linish them so they look a bit better. Also, all the ripples in the pans can be removed by doing hot shrinks with an oxy/acetylene torch and using a hammer and dolly.
Although the repro pans don't fit great I would think twice about cutting and welding like you are planning unless you are a good welder - that is quite a lot of butt welding in thin sheet metal and you really want to be sure you get good strong welds.
I understand they are not original and don't look the best but given the rear of the pans are under the back seat you will never see them and at least you know they will be strong enough. I think I will end up with a decent result, it it just a lot of work to get there.
It is disappointing that repro pans for Ghia's are such poor quality and do not have all the attachments such as seat rails when you can buy bug pans which are good quality with all the attachments already fitted for a similar price. I guess this is because the market for bugs is so much bigger than ghia's. |
Yeah, I hear you. I thought about straightening it up, looks pretty simple, but what would be the fun it that? The truth is, I really wanted the original look, even though I know no one will likely see it, I just like the look of it better. I know it’s a lot of extra work, and I might regret going down this road, I might even end up reversing all the way to the exit ramp… we’ll see.
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Air does not freeze. Air does not boil.
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Mellow Yellow 74
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Fair enough - I wish Gerson was making ghia pans because even at four times the cost they would be worth it for good quality early ghia pans
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Manage to find a little time to get in the garage again. Seems like ages since I’ve been able to.
Started in on re-creating the missing rear pan bit. Made a template from paper then transferred to 18 gauge.
First rough fit after shaping it... this might actually work.
Could see right away that the rear pan pressings were going to be a problem. Sketched out the original in chaulk- way different from what’s there...hmmm.
While thinking on how to deal with the pressings, I welded on the cross member I made ages ago...
Trimmed off the rear of the replacement pan...In for a penny in for an elephant, as someone on here once said. Now I’ve gone and done it.
No option but to move forward now.
Here it is roughly offered up again.
Time to take a breath while I sort out what I’ve done and what I’m going to do about the pressings.
Made the outer cross-member bit using the remnants of the original and one from the pax side of a 65 as a guide (no little bumps on either side). Opted not to put in the extra drain hole just yet. I don’t have the plug for it, and it’s not really needed so I might just delete it.
Fitted up , seems to fit ok, also checked it against the holes on the body, looks good...we’ll see.
Back to the pan pressings, decided to make a few relief cuts with the angle grinder, there’s a lot to remodel though. Also, cut some 1/8 MDF, to fit the rectangular pressings, taped them on the underside and tapped away... starting to get a result, though this is going to require a bit of finessing.
Sprayed a bit of primer to see where I was at with it...the three lumps are starting to come up alright, the rear-most part requires a bit too much work though me thinks.
Devised a way using MDF and a small square to press the big rear indent bit into some 18 gauge. I think I’ll weld this in instead of trying to fix what’s there...at least that’s the plan.
Starting to wonder why I went down this rabbit hole... maybe I thought the build was going too fast..  .
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Did a little more work on my pan pressings. Cut the original mdf piece to make the inner recessed square, some aluminum flat bar to make the recessed ridges. Not perfect but ok.
Hacked off the mangled end bit from the replacement pan and fitted my new piece up. Looks a bit better now, good enough for me anyway.
Tacked it in, but still have more work to do here, and need to put a small recess along the edge of the stepped bit, and cut and patch the hole on the right side. I was a little too hurried with the welding and warped it a little. Limited time means rushing, which is never a good idea... Gave it a shot of weld through primer so I could better see what it was looking like.
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CiderGuy
Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013
Posts: 1351
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Bob,
Your metal working skills are amazing. Might I ask what do you do for a living ? Fantastic work.
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Cars Currently Owned:
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe - Project car for sale
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (Body off restoration)
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Thanks for saying that, it’s well appreciated and very kind of you. However, the outcome is worse than it looks in the picture, and frankly, there are a lot of people on this site that are light years ahead of me when it comes to fabrication skills, I’m just stumbling through it as I go. But again I do appreciate the positive comments; it does feel good to know that some are enjoying this, and helps keep me motivated.
By the way, I work for our local government assisting companies with international business development, currently doing work in the Asia-Pacific and Caribbean regions. Not really conducive to greasy fingernails and busted knuckles, but this stuff here keeps me balanced.
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63 vwnotch
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 734
Location: Riverside,CA Econo Motors
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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glad to see you didn't let this one get away and turn into scrap... the reward is waiting for you at the end my friend..
keep up the good work....m
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2874
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
| ...By the way, I work for our local government assisting companies with international business development, currently doing work in the Asia-Pacific and Caribbean regions. Not really conducive to greasy fingernails and busted knuckles, but this stuff here keeps me balanced. |
A job and a Ghia restoration? They take turns to give you a refuge from the problems you encounter in the other.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| bobnorman wrote: |
| ...By the way, I work for our local government assisting companies with international business development, currently doing work in the Asia-Pacific and Caribbean regions. Not really conducive to greasy fingernails and busted knuckles, but this stuff here keeps me balanced. |
A job and a Ghia restoration? They take turns to give you a refuge from the problems you encounter in the other. |
And don't forget the 2 year old twins... A friend of mine says we all need that third place; the place between work and home. For some it's a bar, others a rink or clubhouse. My third place is my garage.
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kiwighia68
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2874
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
| kiwighia68 wrote: |
| bobnorman wrote: |
| .. Not really conducive to greasy fingernails and busted knuckles, but this stuff here keeps me balanced. |
A job and a Ghia restoration? They take turns to give you a refuge from the problems you encounter in the other. |
And don't forget the 2 year old twins... A friend of mine says we all need that third place; the place between work and home. For some it's a bar, others a rink or clubhouse. My third place is my garage. |
Indeed. I encourage my students to divide their energy and time equally between family, career en self, and not to feel guilty when they give each third its fair share.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 3916
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
Bob,
Its been a year..... any news? Hope all is well
Nicholas |
Mr.Norman is doing just fine..Now and then I pop down to his Garagemahal and help with his projects,which in realty ends up with lots of beer consumption/gabbing and little wrench turning until the wee hours of the morning
About his Ghia project,I'll let him explain the current status,let's just say it's gone a little sideways after kind of hitting a wall 
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c21darrel
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Location: San Dimas
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jwold
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 2088
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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What did you do to actually press the metal over that mdf form? Do you have a press of some kind?
thx |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Hey guys. First, apologies for being one poor correspondent...been pretty busy of late with lots of non-VW stuff.
As Fes says the project has hit a wall. Literally. About a year ago I decided to switch projects and have been working away on my 64 Squareback… The rationale, in part, being that that project will see me behind the wheel enjoying the ride with my family much sooner than this one will. Also, in terms of space, I really wanted to get the Squareback to a point where I could drive it in and out of the garage when needed, and even easily bring it elsewhere for storage if I wanted to – freeing up needed space to get back at the Ghia which will be shortly moving into the body stage.
Long story short I got it running last winter for the first time since 1974, and made the decision to tip the Ghia chassis up on its side and push it/strap it up against a wall to give me space to work. Worked away at the Square through the winter, spring, and summer with a goal of having it on the road by end of summer. It was all going fairly well, I managed to sort through a lot of the work, including all new brakes, rust repair, wiring, interior, etc… by late summer it was about 95% done, just a few little issue to sort out. I drained the transmission oil and at least 25 gear teeth bits came out with it. Kinda knocked the wind out of my sails, and at the same time work life/travel and family obligations picked up. So there it is. If you’re interested in going to the T-3 side to check out that whole saga, it plays out here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
My plan this winter is to haul the engine transmission on the Square, put the transmission from the Ghia (which is actually out of a 63 square) in it. Finish off the little bits it needs for a license inspection, and then get ready to get back at the Ghia.
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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| jwold wrote: |
What did you do to actually press the metal over that mdf form? Do you have a press of some kind?
thx |
For those bits I used a 20 ton shop press I bought at Princess Auto (Canada’s Harbour Freight). I’ve also used a vice and a hammer at times as well. The process is similar to this:
It’s pretty straightforward, but you can find a bit more of it here, about 1/3 of the way down the page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8469723&highlight=#8469723
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advCo
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2017
Posts: 373
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Rebuilding my dad's 1966 Sea Blue Ghia |
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Just read through this thread. Great work here and fantastic documentation, I will be referencing these posts during my upcoming pan restoration. Good luck with the T-3 and look forward to updates once you get back to the Ghia.
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'68/'70 Ghia Coupe Project
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