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AircooledTony
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Joined: September 06, 2017
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Location: New York
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Brakes Reply with quote

Get on your thinking caps.

1956 chassis under a dune buggy

new trans is a 67 ( all good with the installation )

really not interested in disk as it needs the wide 5 for the existing wheels and the disk conversions are way to heavy.
My goal is that all parts will fit from one year!
Master cylinder is a 19 mm dual, new hard lines and flex

have the rear backing plates for the 67
have a complete set of drums and backing plates from a 64 or 65 not sure which.

So the questions:
are all the front drums, bolt pattern aside capable of fitting a link pin spindle?

Are wheel cylinders all interchangeable, bore size apart on the above.

Are the shoes front and rear the same after a certain year?
bore size?
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

AircooledTony wrote:
Get on your thinking caps.

1956 chassis under a dune buggy

new trans is a 67 ( all good with the installation )

really not interested in disk as it needs the wide 5 for the existing wheels and the disk conversions are way to heavy.
My goal is that all parts will fit from one year!
Master cylinder is a 19 mm dual, new hard lines and flex

have the rear backing plates for the 67
have a complete set of drums and backing plates from a 64 or 65 not sure which.

So the questions:
are all the front drums, bolt pattern aside capable of fitting a link pin spindle?

Are wheel cylinders all interchangeable, bore size apart on the above.

Are the shoes front and rear the same after a certain year?
bore size?


Yes, 64-65 drums will go right on your 56 link pin suspension

No not all wheel cylinders are interchangeable. The wheel cylinders must match the backing plate adjuster width. So if the backing plate is for a 30mm wide shoe, the wheel cylinder must also be for a 30mm wide shoe. If the backing plate is for a 40mm wide shoe, the wheel cylinder must also be for a 40mm wide shoe

Here is a chart on shoe sizes
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/quote]

Do you want to know the wheel cylinder bore sizes by year or do you want to know which combination will give you the most powerful and effective brakes?
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MrGoodtunes
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Joined: May 14, 2012
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Location: South Florida
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:
... Do you want to know the wheel cylinder bore sizes by year or do you want to know which combination will give you the most powerful and effective brakes?


Here are bore sizes by year (from Service-Repair Manual by Clymer). Somebody else can maybe provide most powerful, effective!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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AircooledTony
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Location: New York
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

Brothers,

Thank you for the charts. Interesting how VW increased the surface are of the shoes. and reduced the wheel cylinders diameters. Since the 56 brakes were capable of locking the front wheels when cold, but not so well down the hills.

Has anyone performed a weight bias of a shortened buggy. Leaning towards more brake in the rear. Any thoughts!

Thought I would share the talent of the videorapher and the great time we had at the 2018 Manx at the Glenn. Manx at the Banks is next! Need brakes and more than a 36hp!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPer06KWQt8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Hug-QyfbFoE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=IXvgzSGxdfo
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

My first buggy was a Manx style and the weight was 370 lb. on the front axle and 730 lb. on the rear, for a total weight of 1100 lb. The brakes where stock 40 horse and the front tires tiny 135R15. The front locked up very easy and any posted warning speed on corners was to be taken seriously.
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Wildthings wrote:
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy.
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

People have been increasing the power of the rear brake drums on swb buggies since the 60s. There are many threads discussing the options in the archives.

The most effective way is to put Type 3 drums on the back which are both wider but even more importantly are larger in diameter. They require either an IRS suspension/axles or 68 long spline swing axles.

Since you have a 67 transaxle the biggest brakes you can put on the rear would be stock 67 drums with the inner face machined 1/4" wider for 40mm wide shoes mounted on IRS backing plates and super beetle 23.4 mm front wheel cylinders.

It would increase your rear braking force by over 50% from your present 19mm wheel cylinders and 30 mm wide shoes

The link below is to the thread where Joe explained how he did it

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583304
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oprn
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

Don't forget that what you choose for tires front and back effect your brake bias as well. Tire height, width, and rubber compound all make a difference.
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes Reply with quote

How about stock '56 front brakes and stock '67 rear brakes? It will give you 50/50 brake distribution with all stock parts, not all the same year, but all stock and installed as (where) intended.

What you will have is 230mm diameter by 30mm wide brakes with 19mm wheel cylinders at both ends.
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Wildthings wrote:
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy.
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