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New Gowesty springs ver 2.0 impressions...?..
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Antron
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not buying the explaination that it is OK or supposed to be that way. It looks like it just cut your wheel travel (up) quite a bit. Not the thing a syncro owner is typically looking for.

Bob
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photogdave
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the exact explanation:

That it exactly how they are supposed to look. As the suspension is loaded, the upper coils are designed to come into contact and that is how the spring rate goes up. As you go over a bump and the coils relax, the spring rate decreases.
 You will notice as you load the back of the van it will not squat out like before. But, unlike just putting a higher rate spring in, the ride quality will not suffer.
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bosruten
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:

I've only driven about 60 km because I haven't put in the front springs and done the alignment. I wasn't worried until I saw some of the reactions in this thread! So far it seems to ride fine.
How do you like the OME shocks?


They are stiff, I'm ok with it but if I had gobs of $$$, I'd try the Fox, mostly for the adjustability factor. Cool
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presslab
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really buy the idea that progressive springs are a good choice for most vehicles. Set up correctly, your shock's rebound damping is tuned to the spring rate. Well, your shock is not progressive, so it will never really be tuned correctly with a progressive spring.

In off-road use, progressive springs (usually just two springs mounted in series) are used to give more bottom-out resistance for hard hits. They are usually set to engage only the stiffer spring at 60-80% of travel.

http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/coilovers/Part_1/

The GoWesty springs are for all intents just straight rate springs under static load because the softer coils are in coil bind. When the wheel is unloaded, the softer spring comes into play; I could see this being a detriment for wheel traction, as if you drop a wheel into a hole the spring will soften up, depriving you of needed weight and traction.
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levi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:
Here is the exact explanation:

That it exactly how they are supposed to look. As the suspension is loaded, the upper coils are designed to come into contact ....


Not much sense there, (they're designed to come into contact), they're already IN contact.
Someone trying to cover one's ass.
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WhiteH2O
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a few cars where the springs looked like that. I see nothing wrong with it, that is how they are designed.
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canasync
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done alot of reading about springs and spring rates over the last year especially since I was looking into bringing in the Maas (trailmaster Germany) Suspension kits. Maas tried to do what Gowesty does and make an "all around" suspension for all vans but the fact of the matter is that there can be no such thing with the variety of Vanagon models out there. Thats why VW had many different springs ranging from 10-19mm wire thickness.

Trailmaster realized this fairly quickly, admitted fault and decided to sell their first kit as one suited to 7 seaters, doka's, and single cabs. They then started work on a HD (heavy duty) kit suited for Westfalias, and expedition vehicles. If you look at the pics attached you can see a comparison of different springs available in Germany.

The pic below shows the rears lists the manufacturers name at the top, then the Length, and lastly the wire thickness.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



In the next pic for the fronts from top to bottom it shows the Manufacturer, number of coils, length, wire thickness, springrates, the second last line is regarding the weight required for the progressive coils to touch and the overload coils to take over, and the last line is the weight rating for the springs at each corner.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



What I would like to know is what the wire diameter for the GW springs is and what the rated spring rates are. I have tried to get this info from them before but they make a big secret out of it.
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Last edited by canasync on Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photogdave's springs look exactly like the H&R lowering springs I have in my van. That is LOWERING springs. They are designed to ride like that and not fall out when the van gets light and or you get full droop. If the springs were simply shorter, they would fall out unless you run limiting straps.

Go to H&R's website for a very good explanation.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just released, GoWesty's zero-lift progressive springs for the 2WD crowd

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23573&category_id=253&category_parent_id=

Looking at the pics posted above of a 2WD Westy with the GoWesty 1.5" lift springs, it looks like there is no coil bind upon installation but the question is still there regarding their performance in heavy vehicles like a Westy. Now we just need a volunteer to purchase these zero-lift springs and give us some feedback Very Happy I think the lower height might be an improvement if you want to avoid too much lean during cornering and maybe they are more stable and less bouncy during braking...and as GoWesty says, not recommended for heavy power plant conversions...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So driving around on the roads and some heavily-potholed back alleys, with just the rear springs in, the ride seems fine. However, going over some speed bumps at a moderate parking lot speed in the Home Depot parking lot, the rear shocks topped out.
Both GW and VC said the travel of the factory shocks should be okay with these springs. They are the original shocks so they are definitely soft but that shouldn't affect the travel, right?
I was all set to order new factory shocks for the smoother ride than OME but now it's looking like my choices are:
1. Keep the springs, get OME shocks and suffer the stiffer ride
2. Return the springs and take the loss on the return shipping/installation costs and wait for the new Schwenk springs to be available
3. Keep the springs, keep my current shocks and don't go over speed bumps too fast!
My driving is typically logging roads with lots of potholes and washboard, and long highway journeys to get to said logging roads. Any advice?
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presslab
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Driving on washboard roads is real hard on shocks; sounds like yours are shot. With your old shocks worn out it will allow the springs to rebound too quickly, and now that you have less downward travel it tops out harshly.

New factory shocks could be a solution.

How much downward travel do you get on the rear wheel, from laden to unladen?
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Jedi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not have GoWesty's new springs but I have had a few pairs of their old ones made by H&R Germany. I am still running the old ones on my syncro Adventurewagen and love them Very Happy I see they still have a few sets of old and I would choose to get those over the new based on the pics of coils touching Shocked
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Keith Tanner
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do a lot of suspension work on race cars, and our company sells springs for Miatas that have a similar design to the GoWesty ones. In fact, I think we even use the same manufacturer although we had a similar design with our previous supplier. There's a set of close coils that go into bind at normal ride height.

It helps if you think of them as a helper spring on a coilover, because they perform the same purpose. At normal ride height, they don't do anything. When you do drop a wheel a long way into droop, they unload and let the spring stay loaded and in place. Without them, the spring would come loose under droop. Not really progressive, but effective. Yes, they do increase the potential for coil bind but if your suspension is set up right, that's not an issue.

No experience with the GW springs otherwise though.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just ordered my 2WD lifted springs and Bilstein shocks from GoWesty. Going to replace a few of the bushings (anti-sway bar in particular) while I'm under there.
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got about 1000 miles on my 2wd GW springs.

I cant say I like them, or their answer when I said they seem very soft..

I told them I dont have anything, 0 interior, typically 1 full tank of gas, and me driving.

The issue, braking, or cornering, they seem to dip, lose height really badly..

they said it was cause there was nothing in the van..

Well, like it will get ANY better when weight is in the van.

BS.... I just dont want to remove them.. cause I hated installing the fronts.
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Altoona
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dubbified wrote:
I've got about 1000 miles on my 2wd GW springs.

I cant say I like them, or their answer when I said they seem very soft..

I told them I dont have anything, 0 interior, typically 1 full tank of gas, and me driving.

The issue, braking, or cornering, they seem to dip, lose height really badly..

they said it was cause there was nothing in the van..

Well, like it will get ANY better when weight is in the van.

BS.... I just dont want to remove them.. cause I hated installing the fronts.


They are progressive springs, right? So as they compress, they will get stiffer, right? So as you load the vehicle down and the springs compress, they will be stiffer, which is what you want, right?

Theoretically, what they told you makes perfect sense. Real world testing would be in order to confirm, of course.
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the van loaded with my buddies garbage doing a dump run.

I just didnt see any difference. The springs themselves are quality.

GW is a great vendor, always had good experience.

In no way is my posting to be taken negatively about GW, or their product.

This is my first van, and there are many options for products which affect handling on the van adversely from product to product.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dubbified wrote:

I just didnt see any difference. The springs themselves are quality.

It is difficult to diagnose impressions of handling and driving characteristics.

However several Samba members have had very positive results going to the bigger Addco sway bar up front.. helps with dive into corners and helps flattent the van in turns.

Others also use Koni shocks.. adjustable and can help fine tune the ride.

Lastly a rear sway bar can help over all leveling thru turns and on uneven roads.

These items *may* help produce a soft "off-the-top" ride and still allow for more firm handling.

But I can understand the frustration.. I have been trading some info with a friend who feels they are guniea pigs for these products.. You spend hundreds plus install only to find out they aren't what was hoped for.

There is almost no upfront info to work with and then you spend hundress more trying to tune.. shocks, sway bars, tires,..
It is a very time consuming and expensive process. Some of us enjoy the process, and don't mind the money so much.. Its just part of the game But others? Not so much. I can respect that. Gets to be an $$$$ PIA.

Too bad the vendors can't publish more data to help us make a decision.
Bummer for them is, that if it happens to many times, a customer goes elsewhere.. or gives up.. or worse, sells.

Are vendors listening?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
Saguache wrote:
Are we talking about the 2WD or 4WD kits? I hadn't realized this was an issue with these springs and I've been planning to lift my 2WD van very shortly. Are there other non-progressive springs you recommend which will remain stiffer under load?


Both 2wd and Syncro.

I am currently testing Syncro.org 2wd lift springs paired with Koni shocks.
Excellent fit and finish.
No alignment issues, 1.5" lift, firmer than stock feel and excellent for limiting body roll.
The van I mounted them on first was a 91 Carat.
They will be mounted on a 86 gl next to see if there is any difference to report.


Dylan- Thanks for all your input on this issue. So you are saying the syncro.org 2wd are stiffer than the stock Carat springs? This is very interesting to me, as I really don't want to lose too much of the Carat's handling characteristics if I go up. Based on your report, it seems the syncro.org 2wd plus Koni is the way for me. My stock springs with tired KYBs are riding extra low (14.5"?), so I'm expecting a pretty dramatic lift (maybe least 3" from where I am now) with a more comfortable ride coming from the Konis. No more totally flat, porsche-like handling but a better solution for mixed driving.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been driving around for a couple of weeks with just the new rear springs. Hard to really report anything useful with this setup but they seem fine so far.
I've ordered OME shocks and will have them and the new front springs installed next week. Then we'll see...
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