Subaru Engines Vs. VW Engines

[Crankey]

Joel, I really like your carb setup alot. ! adapting a quad throttle body setup would also be very nice. I saw somewhere a guy using 6 motorcycle throttle bodys on an SVX engine. that was quite nice looking too.

I have no spare tire well in my fake speedster. and xoo00oox I don't think I have room for that setup either.

overall it's really about esthetics of the thing as a whole. just because the suby engine is not made by Volkswagen and is newer and more advanced...dosn't mean it's a soulless lump of modern automotive banality.

I have been living with my suby engine and aftermarket ECU for aver a year of daily driving. I like it and I feel like it's got a cool personality and vibe that is worthy of appreciation too.
I could have bought a very nicely rebuilt WBX rather than swap to suby for alot less money. but I wanted the adventure I guess and it's been rewarding.

so it's certainly worth serious consideration to me.

[udidwht]

[Chad M]

[Joel]

[xoo00oox]

[udidwht]

[bugnut68]

This argument over what's best could go on forever. Short version is stick with an air-cooled Type 1 if dicking around/tinkering is your thing, or you have the means to pay a professional (and thereby support the continuation of the teeny tiny VW aftermarket/performance industry) to have the best of the best.

For those that want less troublesome performance and greater reliability at the cost of adapting the water-cooling system into an early VW, the Subaru is a viable option.

VWs have the simplicity factor, where engine building is concerned, at least by design; but they're markedly fragile compared to more modern platforms when you start driving a performance-built VW with performance in mind.

The Ferrari comparison made me laugh... Ferrari is a sports car/high performance platform with a significant racing pedigree. VW is a... well, it need not be said, but 'pedigree' doesn't come into play, no matter how many $100K restored deluxe buses get sold.

[Ghia Nut]

[Big Al UK]

I've answered and am in the process of answering many of those questions in my vid series. It might be a bit slow but I'm trying to include as much info about how did different aspects of the build. In the 2nd vid I show you the difference in engine sizes etc and I guess what you get from a scoob motor depends how much your wanting to chop your bug etc.

Here are the series. I'm going to be publishing the 3rd vid hopefully tonight or tomorrow which is about Wind & Water, and started one on the exhast.


Hi. Ive started a new video series in my Subaru STI Powered VW Bug, BEEFCAKE. Here is part #01 (walkaround)
https://youtu.be/_HlmegTDu_4

Here is the 2nd vid (engine & gearbox) from my BEEFCAKE (Subaru Engined VW Bug) series, more to follow
https://youtu.be/8ej5gkCcUjg

You guys might find some parts from my vids useful and have more vids to come

quote="emberblade"]I've been looking around the site for some information on my planned project VW and it made me think. At first, my sights were set on extreme horsepower out of the type 1 engine, but recently I've seen that the Subaru engine conversion and had to wonder if it was a good route for a high performance vw.

My thoughts are this: A Vw owner has 3 generally accepted choices when powering a type 1. The Type 1 engine, modified to the extreme and cylinders bored paper thin. The Type 4 engine, modified to a similar state, but generally accepted as a more reliable engine. Finally, the Subaru swap, which isn't exactly a bolt on application, but it's possible. I know there are other engines that convert for the bug, but these are what I am most familiar and comfortable with. Actually, the Subaru engine is my least favorite, being that it isn't as easy to work with and frankly is less fun to look at.

Keeping in mind the power differences between the 3, and also the weight differences between them, which powerplant supplies the best power to weight ratio?

How much does each engine weigh approximately, with all the necessary bits to make them run? The Subaru needs a radiator, etc, etc.

Which engine is best? Any input accepted.[/quote]

[jpaull]

[Chickensoup]

Why wouldnt i buy a subaru?? because theyre ugly and heavier, and not that cool(well, at least to me). But, i love the subaru engines which happens to be flat, like a vw. so, why not mix the two?? or you could own one cool vintage speed type 1, and 1 subi swap.

[Wreck]

I be surprised if a subi 5 speed would be strong enough to handle 300hp in a drag racing launch . Reason being is the box was designed to send more than half the power to the rear diff , not all of it through the front diff , like it's used in VW conversions .

I run a 2.90, 1.86 ,1.26 , .89 with a 4.56 diff through 205/50r16 Yoko AD08 tyres . the tailer first /second is great with the torque of a 2.6 type4 . It is a bit low for extended highway cruises 110kmh is about 3900. the engine is happy ,gives good mpg but the drivers ears suffer after an hour or so

I couldn't see on the videos how well the motor/ trans/tuning forks are braced to the car to stop wheel hop . A traction bar works really well , it would take a bit of fabrication to extend your mudguard/wings sub frame to also incorporate a traction bar ,I think it would be worth it .

Big Al ,here are some ideas on trans mounts . The rubber mounts are GM transmission mounts , they were too soft so I fabricated some mounts similar to these .
http://musclegarage.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=80_66&product_id=103

route=product/product&path=66&product_id=88

[Scott65Beetle]

All I want is 100-125 hp and the ability to diagnose and fix my hobby car. As far as creature comforts go yes I have decent heat but no AC(big whoop). To me in my situation its a no brainer. 2054cc VW typ1 in my 65 bug is perfect. In fact I love it.i would describe my car as quick. Will it go 100k without help? doubt it but so what its my hobby. My only gripe is the little room in the engine bay with dual Dells but I did get used to that eventually. BTW I dont care what others put in there cars either its still a bug

[Bad bug]

[Big Al UK]

Hi Paul, thanks for the feedback.
There was a number of reason I don't think I was in the 12's. That was my first weekend out amd struggling with a number of isues. First I was struggling to change gear! I don't know if was gearbox movement or what and even caused a dead run clamping down the box so hard it bent the bottom mount. Ive since been playing with the shifter and seems much better tho I think the box is slow to change gear still. If I rush it it crunches 1st to 2nd and suspect that's the syncto. Not happy with the box build tho didn't go into it in the vid but had to strip the car down 3 times because of problems, very frustrating.

Also I couldn't get any traction. I'm running wide 225 semi slicks but much like at the start of my first vid soon as the turbo spools the wheels are hopping and I was launching at 2-2.5k. Ive just invested in some protech rear dampers which I can serious stiffen the rear (running soft atm for the road) but until spring and warmer dryer days I can't test in 'anger'. Also when built up the rear suspension as money was so tight I kept the old 944 rubber donuts. It could be forward movement in the spring plate causing it too so I really need to invest in some eurathane replacements when time and money allows.

bhp?. Ive not had it rolling roaded yet so not sure why power it's putting out. According to the tuning company I spoke to, not having a 2nd O2 sensor may mean I'm running rich and down on power again tbc.

Lastly weight. It's a heavy bug with full cage and heavier box and engine, all glass and mostly stock steel so not expecting the times true drag ravers can achieve buy should be in the 12's easy and hoping for 11s one day but that maybe a pipedream but who knows.

Good luck with your project

[Big Al UK]

[Big Al UK]

My box builder said stock scoob gear sets wouldn't have a chance with 300bhp too, hence my comment.....but then I cut it short as didnt want to advise on something I personally had no experience of, and to not look like I was putting subaru gears down as that wasnt my intension.

They are some beefy mounts like them!

I planned to link mine when reducing the depth of them at the same time making into a cradle effectively. But all been working well and despite their size not causing any clearance issues at the height I run the car.
Your right tho it may well be worth triangulating from the horns to the shock top mounts for additional support.

This is how my horns are currently tied into the cage

It looked like this originally but had to be modified when went from type1 to scoob

quote="Wreck"]I be surprised if a subi 5 speed would be strong enough to handle 300hp in a drag racing launch . Reason being is the box was designed to send more than half the power to the rear diff , not all of it through the front diff , like it's used in VW conversions .

I run a 2.90, 1.86 ,1.26 , .89 with a 4.56 diff through 205/50r16 Yoko AD08 tyres . the tailer first /second is great with the torque of a 2.6 type4 . It is a bit low for extended highway cruises 110kmh is about 3900. the engine is happy ,gives good mpg but the drivers ears suffer after an hour or so

I couldn't see on the videos how well the motor/ trans/tuning forks are braced to the car to stop wheel hop . A traction bar works really well , it would take a bit of fabrication to extend your mudguard/wings sub frame to also incorporate a traction bar ,I think it would be worth it .

Big Al ,here are some ideas on trans mounts . The rubber mounts are GM transmission mounts , they were too soft so I fabricated some mounts similar to these .
http://musclegarage.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=80_66&product_id=103

route=product/product&path=66&product_id=88

[/quote]

[Big Al UK]

I remember seeing a bug over 20 years ago with a waterboxer setup in it and to this day I think it's the only one Ibe knowingly seen since!

Before I went 1776 or scooby I actually bought a 1.7 type 4 engine in bits for 5 quid (uk pounds) LOL but seemed too much work so ended up building the 1776.

I have to say, I never really liked the 1.9 wasserboxer in my t25, especially when it blew a head stud off on the motorway.
I believe the heads from the wasserboxer boxer can be heavily modified and made to fit type 4 etc tho? Out of my depth on that tho so I'll stop before I say anything stupid lol.

Given Beefcake build I don't think I would go the same route again if could avoid it. There seem to be many people now sucessfully using gti rads up front with hardly visible scoops under the valance. I have to say I'm slightly confused why they don't run into overheating issues......Maybe they do but it's not advertised? But keeping the firewall further back would have been a massive plus and rear seats woukd have been nice too. You have to assume a similar setup would be better for your wasserboxer as you wont need so much cooling and keep the functionality of 4 seats, well unless you have a roll cage like mine that cuts the car in half too.

[gprudenciop]

[Big Al UK]

Hi. Ive just uploaded part #04 Exhaust on my BEEFCAKE series. Hope it helps
https://youtu.be/rb26MmClF3M