Lifters or Valves...something is making a racket

[hippiepilot]

My 91 carat (daily driver) sounds like a lawn mower engine or sewing machine. It has about 90,000 miles on the engine and just started this horrible knocking sound under a load. When i rev the engine while it is park it sounds fine. At idle you do hear a bit of knocking on the drivers side. When I floor it on the road people stare.

I have tried the following.
Draining about a quart of oil and replacing it with transmission fluid in the hopes that there is a varnish buildup on the lifters and the extra detergent will clean them. Didn't work.

I then changed the oil and used Lucas 5W-30 and substituted a quart with the Lucas oil stabilizer. Didn't work

Then I tried adjusting the valves per 15.29 of the Bentley and only turning the screws 1 1/2 turns in after the rocker arms just touched the push rods instead of 2 turns as per the Bentley. They seemed fine but I adjusted them anyways and I didn't see anything that looked out of place when I had the valve covers off.

Am I hosed here? New heads? New engine? Besides the engine making a lot of noise it has tons of power. I just got a new job and don't want to be that deadbeat that calls in because his car has broke down.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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83 air-cooled Westy
91 Carat (daily driver)
http://www.changeisland.com

[IdahoDoug]

Regularly driven by you for years, and no untoward events out of the ordinary and suddenly one morning this started? Or??

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[insyncro]

Rod knock

[seanjenn]

Take the engine cover off and have a friend drive while you hang out with engine, listening to things. Might help pinpoint that noise a little better. Is the noise "shallow" or "deep" sounding?
Loosen the belts and grab the crank pulley with both hands and try to move it fore and aft, pushing and pulling with hard jerking motions. Is there play?
While the belts are loose also check for play at the waterpump, A/C, P/S. alternator.
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1987 GL Sunroof
2.1 4 spd

[onslowb]

Try a stethoscope to isolate the noise. Did the oil have any metal in it?

[motelvw]

Hope you haven't been running 5-30 in there for long. 20-50 is what's recommended for warm climates.

[insyncro]

or 15/50 synthetic

[Howesight]

I agree with InSyncro - - the symptoms described sound like rod knock. Lifter noise does not change with or without a load on the engine. A knocking noise that appears or gets much louder under load is likely a connecting rod with a worn out bearing or a cracked/broken piston.

In either case, you need to disassemle that engine before further damage occurs.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[hippiepilot]

Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like I need to bring it in to my mechanic cause this is out of my comfort level being it is my daily driver.
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83 air-cooled Westy
91 Carat (daily driver)
http://www.changeisland.com

[Tram]

Sounds like a possible exhaust leak on one cylinder at the head to me.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

[Zeitgeist 13]

I'm dredging up old info from the crusty mists, but doesn't a clatter under load indicate crank bearings/thrust, while a rod bearing will become loudest when you let off the throttle?
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Terry Kay]

<<I then changed the oil and used Lucas 5W-30 and substituted a quart with the Lucas oil stabilizer. Didn't work >>

I am really suprised.
Instead of cleaning the inside of the engine, your adding glue---

Sounds like you a lifter on the way out and by thickening the oil.

Do this;
Drain the oil.
Fill the engine with diesel fuel.
Let it run for 5-10 minutes.
Drain the fuel out, and re-load the engine with oil & a quart of Marvel.

Give it a week to do it's work--then adjust the valves once you have all of the snot outa the lifter's.

You should be able to tell the difference between a rod pounding & a lifter ticking--big difference & you must think it's a lifter if your adjusting valves.
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T.K.

[TGOT]

Run the engine with diesel in the crankcase in place of oil? Really? That sounds like it would do more harm than good.

[mtwrench540]

nope,than it an old timers trick and it works!!!!
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87 wolfsberg,74 181w/1915 and lots of patina! learned to fix vw's from hot vw mag in 1964,VWOA instructor,DSM,69 to73,service mgr at different porsche-audi dealers etc,etc,now retired!!! first vw new 64,transplanted 356 eng in 65,400characters are not enough space!!

[Tram]

[AtlasShrugged]

Diesel fuel or kerosene...I would not believe it too if I had not seen it for myself.

My first car was a Corvair Monza (I lived to tell this story). The first thing that was done when we got it home is drop the oil and fill it with kerosene. Let the engine idle till warm then drop the kerosene and refill with fresh engine oil and a new filter.

Never burned any oil (leaked some from the valve covers) and ran strong till I totaled it.

Terry is on the money..

If it is a rod or engine bearing knock in your engine..you won't be hurting the eventual repair bill..the cost will not go up.

If it is a lifter..you just saved $2-$3k.

[Terry Kay]

<<Ummmm... I wouldn't recommend it.>>

From what direct knowledge are you expounding upon?

If your not sure, or have never had any experience in this process don't recommend anything.
I didn't say drop the oil, fill the engine up with diesel , and go for a leisurly drive.

Run it for 5 to 10 minutes, shut it down, and change the oil & filter.
It works just fine for cleaning out the crap in lifter's & crankcase's.
Been there, seen it, done it.

Or--If your Melvin Megabucks--fill the engine up with Marvel, and run it for awhile.
Works wonder's.

This is the benifit of running a quart of Marvel in your oil all of the time.
It keeps the inside of the engine & it's operating components squeaky clean.

And I agree--if this deep cleaning process doesn't do anything--or the knock, tapping (not really determined what yet) persists--it's either a hung up lifter, a rod or crank bearing going bye-bye, or maybe-- the valves are really outa wack--adjustment wise.

Start by getting all of the glue outa the engine & start with some fresh oil & fliter.

Report on what you have found out--or rent a trained ear to listen to what you have going on.
No oil light on?
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T.K.

[Tram]

[Terry Kay]

First of all I believe you were misinformed regarding the ATF whch I would never use in any engine.
It's got grabber's in the oil designed to cause the friction plates to grab properly.
Not at all a suggested item to be running in your engine.

Now will I tell you again why in ths particular instance, and in many other's when a stuck lifter , plugged oil galley, or stuck rings would benifit from a load of diesel fuel.
It'll break all of the crap out the engine, and deposit it in an oil drain pan faster than that one quart of ATF.

FYI--Did you knw that Marvel Mystery oil has been around and available longer than any other oil product ?
Look that up at Widjy board internet search and you can verify that.
It's been around way before ATF was ever conceived.

And as other folks here have testified to, besides me, that the kerosine or diesel fuel is an excellent item to deep clean any internal engine parts--and just because Benz or Hispano Suza doesn't do it--dosen't mean it won't work--& work well.
They aren't the first or last word in automotive correctness & proceedures.
I've known some real dummies that worked for BMW & Benz.
That make them experts too?

You seem to have the upper crust Benz knowledge here--what's the problem with the OP's engine, OH great Karnak?

If you have never tried the engine diesel treatment, or know of anybody that has, don't suggest or recommend that it ain't right.

It works, and for sure help a guy out real quick who has some allegid internal lubrication, or malfuctioning engine components.
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T.K.

[Tram]