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My Shop-car build thread
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Nate M.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: My Shop-car build thread Reply with quote

I've been working on a '67 Square for a few years off and on with a goal of making my humble Square into my official ProVolks Shop Car. I'm not a nicknaming kind of guy, but my kids dubbed it "the road cow" due to my liberal use of POR-15 on some rusty spots. . . Since my shop is an Air-cooled VW & Porsche shop I am re-creating the Square into the wagon that Porsche never made and updating it to more modern technology, performance and comfort whenever possible. The side goal is that this car must be a true sleeper (not too hard considering it's a wagon). Laughing It's funny; the car gets lots of looks as it goes down the road. But I suspect most of them are looks based on the premise, "who the h*ll would drive a hideous car like that?" Wink That would be ME!! Cool

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I know from experience that if you look at a project as one big job, it'll likely never get done, because the whole thing is pretty overwhelming. So I have broken this into about 5 phases.

Phase-1 - transplant a low-mileage Porsche 914 2.0L motor in the back, convert it to Megasquirt2 V3 with EDIS ignition and get it tuned and daily drivable. I took a long time doing this because it was a steep learning process on the MS and I have customer cars to do, so my cars always take a back seat. Phase one was completed this past September with the help and expertise of Mario Velotta (www.thedubshop.net) getting the MS set-up and tuned.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Phase-2 - Pull the motor, tear off all the tins and get everything powder-coated. Also ceramic coat the exhaust black so it disappears into the back of the car in keeping with the "sleeper" theme. I got phase-2 finished in December 2011 after 2 months of catching the locals off-guard in the "cow" Cool While it was out, I took the liberty of swapping out the dished stock 94mm P&C for a set of flat-top 96mm P&Cs. So the displacement is now 2056cc.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Phase-3 - Remove the stock swing axle rear suspension and convert it to the later IRS. Use urethane bushings throughout, upgrade to adjustable spring plates, add a rear sway bar (handling is a top priority). Convert the rear drums to Porsche 914 rear disc brakes. And finally add a Porsche 923 (915-based) 5-speed from a wrecked '76 Porsche 912E.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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So for I'm still on phase-3. I've got the suspension all done. The rotors and calipers fitted. The 5-speed fitted and installed. Rear engine hangers fabbed and installed. I'm currently working the shift linkage. I'm not ready to let the cat out of the bag on this yet, but it has a virtually un-modified vintage VW shifter and the shift linkage is a combo of early VW/Porsche/custom/aircraft parts to make it all work. Once finished I'll post-up pics (I just don't want to jinx it Laughing ) I also need to get the clutch cables made and a few other loose ends.

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Nice and stealthy. . .
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Phase-4 - Get the front-end modified. I'm keeping a lid on this for now, but when finished I'll post-up pics of it as well. It's going to be ambitious and something I've never seen done on a T-3. . .

Phase-5 - Paint. I've been doing some favors for a friend that paints cars and he's agreed to paint this as payment for my help on his projects Very Happy I love bartering; it shuts the door on the gub'ment fingers getting in the till. Twisted Evil
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Squarsche build
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For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!
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EatACactus
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet setup! Looking forward to seeing more.
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supaninja
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet Nate, I'm glad you finally put a build thread over here. MS is taking over the type 3 forum, muahahhahahaaha Twisted Evil (we already took over STF Wink )

BTW- Mario is real good peoples!
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VWporscheGT3
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this one already Twisted Evil
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Sqrbckguy38
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice type4 style motor... and yeah thats kinda what it looks like. love the stealthy thing ya got goin. keep it up.
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VWporscheGT3
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ wha......? before i open mouth and insert foot, what do you mean?
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'67 was the Best Year for Seatbelts, although yours need a tuneup. Wink
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nate, I followed part of this build on STF (in the type4um), and only really saw the early "phase 1" part of it, as I don't spend a lot of time there. I think you had carbs on it while building up the MS part of it, so you could drive it back then. I'm glad you were able to get as far as you have though, as I always liked that build (putting a t-4 engine in a T-3), as it seems not enough people were doing it, and we know Jake had moved on to his own forum/site. When you were doing yours, I was also working on mine at the time (a 1.7L 914 engine into a roofless 71 Square), and looked at what you were doing on some things.
How do you like the MS? Was it everything that you thought it would be? Just asking, because I see you're using the t-4 style intake system, and what looks like L-jet injectors. Nick's been trying to get me to swap to it, but, like you, I'm usually busy doing stuff for others. Rolling Eyes
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Nate M.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supaninja: you're EVERYWHERE Laughing

Bobnotch wrote:
Nate, I followed part of this build on STF (in the type4um), and only really saw the early "phase 1" part of it, as I don't spend a lot of time there. I think you had carbs on it while building up the MS part of it, so you could drive it back then. I'm glad you were able to get as far as you have though, as I always liked that build (putting a t-4 engine in a T-3), as it seems not enough people were doing it, and we know Jake had moved on to his own forum/site. When you were doing yours, I was also working on mine at the time (a 1.7L 914 engine into a roofless 71 Square), and looked at what you were doing on some things.
How do you like the MS? Was it everything that you thought it would be? Just asking, because I see you're using the t-4 style intake system, and what looks like L-jet injectors. Nick's been trying to get me to swap to it, but, like you, I'm usually busy doing stuff for others. Rolling Eyes


I actually never put carbs on it. I had a complete and ready to bolt-on set of Weber DCNF 40 carbs that I could have used at any time, but i know that if I did that, the MS would never leave the box again. I forced myself to bull through. So it just was not on the road all that time. Mostly because I delayed a long time sending it to Mario. . . Within what amounted to a few days of on-off working on it in his spare time, it was running like a screamin' banshi!! It was one of those occasions where I thought, "why the hell did I wait so ling to take it to him??" Rolling Eyes No one to blame but ME and my own stubbornness!! Plus, like I said, I would end up not even being able to touch it for 6-9 months at a stretch many times

The MS and EDIS ignition is absolutely fantastic. I will never go back to carbs on my own cars ever again. Super smooth acceleration, instant (and I mean instant) throttle response. My timing is spot-on throughout the entire RPM/load range. It's so smooth that it will pull from 30mph in 4th gear (albeit not real hard at that rpm but it does so smoothly). Carbs would never do that. While carbs are simple to set-up and relatively cheap, they are nothing but a bunch of compromises in the end.

It does take some tuning and there was in my case a fairly steep learning curve (and I still only know just enough to be dangerous). Keep in mind that I did do most things in kit-form so I was a soldering fool for many evenings. Laughing
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Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your build up on the vehicle. Keep my eyes open for the mad cow.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nate M. wrote:
Supaninja: you're EVERYWHERE Laughing

I actually never put carbs on it. I had a complete and ready to bolt-on set of Weber DCNF 40 carbs that I could have used at any time, but i know that if I did that, the MS would never leave the box again. I forced myself to bull through. So it just was not on the road all that time. Mostly because I delayed a long time sending it to Mario. . . Within what amounted to a few days of on-off working on it in his spare time, it was running like a screamin' banshi!! It was one of those occasions where I thought, "why the hell did I wait so ling to take it to him??" Rolling Eyes No one to blame but ME and my own stubbornness!! Plus, like I said, I would end up not even being able to touch it for 6-9 months at a stretch many times

The MS and EDIS ignition is absolutely fantastic. I will never go back to carbs on my own cars ever again. Super smooth acceleration, instant (and I mean instant) throttle response. My timing is spot-on throughout the entire RPM/load range. It's so smooth that it will pull from 30mph in 4th gear (albeit not real hard at that rpm but it does so smoothly). Carbs would never do that. While carbs are simple to set-up and relatively cheap, they are nothing but a bunch of compromises in the end.

It does take some tuning and there was in my case a fairly steep learning curve (and I still only know just enough to be dangerous). Keep in mind that I did do most things in kit-form so I was a soldering fool for many evenings. Laughing


Ok, that was my mistake. That's what I get for going from memory. Wink
That engine did come from 1 of your customers cars though. I think I remember you saying he wanted a 6 cylinder instead of that engine. But you had said that, that engine ran really well (when you got it), and then you had the 67 Square fall into your lap. Shocked

Good to know on the MS. I keep hearing good things about it. Do you use it to control the EDIS? Or is the EDIS stand alone? I'm only asking, because Nick prefers to use the MS to control the spark, especially now that he has the coil on plug set up.
Look forward to seeing more pics, and hearing more about your car. Cool
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
mark tucker wrote:
dont the youthinasisa make all our vw stuff? Shocked
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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supaninja
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIS gives MS the tach_in signal, then MS tells EDIS when to fire the coils. I would call it quasi-standalone. It's one of those things that if you already have it then use it, but if you are in the parts acquisition stage and don't have it yet then do direct fire. Direct fire gives you more features and freedom in wheels, crank position sensors, and coils. Direct fire/EDIS>all distributors Smile

Bob MS is calling you Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I think this is bitchen and would love a Porsche engine and 5 speed, this seems to be significantly over my head technically.

Will continue to follow and admire from a far. Will also save the thread, because you never know when a totaled 914 with a good engine might fall into my lap Rolling Eyes

Dude, I will say I covet your skills and your car. Keep it coming.

CP
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

supaninja wrote:
EDIS gives MS the tach_in signal, then MS tells EDIS when to fire the coils. I would call it quasi-standalone. It's one of those things that if you already have it then use it, but if you are in the parts acquisition stage and don't have it yet then do direct fire. Direct fire gives you more features and freedom in wheels, crank position sensors, and coils. Direct fire/EDIS>all distributors Smile

Bob MS is calling you Wink


I figure IF I do it, it'll be on the t-4 engine. Since it's a high comp stock engine (has domed pistons), Ray says that the timing needs to be spot on, and the MS sounds like the way to go with the fuel too. Wink
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
mark tucker wrote:
dont the youthinasisa make all our vw stuff? Shocked
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cool.

keep the updates coming.

t4 into t3 goes ! Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is sooo rad.

Drool
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nate, did you use jigs to set the irs hinges or is there another safe way. If you had jigs would you rent them out.

looks really cool. My wife saw the cow coralation too
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other question, how did you adapt the 914 calipers to the arms? I have heard there are adapter brackets for the 914 to type 1 but I can't find them.
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Nate M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyboat wrote:
Hi Nate, did you use jigs to set the irs hinges or is there another safe way. If you had jigs would you rent them out.


I just swapped out the entire early swing-axle rear suspension sub-assembly for a later IRS sub-assembly. Un-like all the other VWs, ours unbolt with just 9 bolts.

flyboat wrote:
One other question, how did you adapt the 914 calipers to the arms? I have heard there are adapter brackets for the 914 to type 1 but I can't find them.


I used readily available aftermarket caliper brackets and modified them for the 914 caliper bolt spacing. Only took about 1 hour to modify the pair.
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Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature

For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nate M. wrote:

The MS and EDIS ignition is absolutely fantastic. I will never go back to carbs on my own cars ever again. Super smooth acceleration, instant (and I mean instant) throttle response. My timing is spot-on throughout the entire RPM/load range.

Here are a bunch of YouTube videos of MS with EDIS in VWs.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=megasq...62l2-1l1l0
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