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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Pulled the motor and trans out to get the last pieces out so they could go to the powder coater. While everything was out, I figured it was as good a time as any to get the Eberspacher BA4 gas heater fitted in it's final location. When finished, this will be my daily driver, so I want REAL heat!! I ended up mounting this 180 degrees opposite of how it's normally mounted in the 411/412 cars so the air inlets/outlets could be more friendly for the T-3 body. I'm still going to be doing a lot of custom fabrication to get it all running out of the heater and into the body, but I don't think it will be too bad.
I still need to make an access cover in the cargo floor for servicing the glow plug and the coil but that type of stuff is pretty basic. I also need to decide where to run the wires into the cab under the rear seat and where I will have the relays mounted. Luckily, since I swapped the orientation of the heater, the wires will be on the opposite side of the rear seat area from the Megasquirt, EDIS and O2 sensor wiring.
I temporarily removed the rear suspension so I could cut the access hole for the shift linkage. I also made the final shift linkage piece. Once my rear engine mounts come back from the powder coater, I can get that all finalized. Fingers crossed but I'm confident this time the shifting will be spot-on.
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Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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vlad01
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Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Man this awesome! 
type 4, MS, 923 tranny what else could be better? nice job! |
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7549
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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How did you end up doing the shift linkage?
Throwout?
i have a 923 transaxle, bug@5-speed shifter, and bus-to-bug dog-bone adaptor thingine in front of me right now...
Plus three floorpans, one set cut in half longitudinally through the tunnel for reference...
Let me know your thoughts.
If you use those UJs like Jake did in his bus,
Then you need another shift bushing at the rear of the shift rod.
Else they will just go sideways.
If you bend the shift rod,
And use the dogbone,
Then you have too much bend, and stiction will be your enemy at the shift rod bushing???
You know what I'm babbling about here.... right?
Glad to see I'm not the only one contemplating this very conversion...
My solution for the throw-out is the 2005 passat throwout like Wally used with his G50.
Also with the Saco in-tunnel master.
See link below.
Just have to gather the cojones to cut this freshly-rebuilt 923...
http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9412&page=2
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
How did you end up doing the shift linkage?
Throwout? |
Still working it. My first attempt yielded only 1st-4th gears. . . A total re-design happened and I'm still not quite finished, so I'd rather not say just yet.  Unfortunately, the way Jake did his is just not an option on a T-3.
Also, since mine is a Squareback, I didn't have the luxury of cutting into the body under the back seat area (where the seat belt mounts in the center are) to make a pocket for the tranny to fit. That would have been simple, but would have interfered with the folding rear seat. This is my shop car for hauling stuff. My solution was to lower the rear suspension 1.5" off the body.
| Clatter wrote: |
I have a 923 transaxle, bug@5-speed shifter, and bus-to-bug dog-bone adaptor thingine in front of me right now...
Plus three floorpans, one set cut in half longitudinally through the tunnel for reference...
Let me know your thoughts.
If you use those UJs like Jake did in his bus,
Then you need another shift bushing at the rear of the shift rod.
Else they will just go sideways.
If you bend the shift rod,
And use the dogbone,
Then you have too much bend, and stiction will be your enemy at the shift rod bushing???
You know what I'm babbling about here.... right?
Glad to see I'm not the only one contemplating this very conversion...
My solution for the throw-out is the 2005 passat throwout like Wally used with his G50.
Also with the Saco in-tunnel master.
See link below.
Just have to gather the cojones to cut this freshly-rebuilt 923...
http://www.germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9412&page=2 |
Thanks for the link!! Wally is an ANIMAL!! I love seeing his work; VERY inspiring!!
I'm planning to .use the stock Porsche T/O bearing with a one-off clutch cable. Again, that is the plan now. . . We'll see what it ends up as. . .
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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Nate M.
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Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: |
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I worked on the shift-shaft and coupling for the Porsche 923 trans yesterday and this morning. After a partial redesign. . .
I now have 5 gears fwd and one in reverse!! I have to do a slight bit of refining of the design, but it is working pretty darned well as it is.
Doing the shifter linkage forced me to re-install the motor/trans into the car. The rear hangars are at the powder coater, so it's all being held in place with a transverse 2X4 across the engine access and ratchet straps.  It works well for mock-up, but I wouldn't want to drive that way. 
While the motor/trans was in, I had the chance to see how close the BA4 heater is to the starter. . . Got plenty of room; no interference at all with almost 1" of room. So now I can proceed with wiring and ducting into the car and fab an exhaust for it.
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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RennyRB
Samba Textbook Gangsta
Joined: August 10, 2006
Posts: 979
Location: Torrance
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Does that Eberspacher give you double heat? By that I mean, it looks like you've got the heat exchangers still attached, and the gas heat looks like it has inlets and outlets.
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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| RennyRB wrote: |
| Does that Eberspacher give you double heat? By that I mean, it looks like you've got the heat exchangers still attached, and the gas heat looks like it has inlets and outlets. |
The BA4 is from a 411/412 car. It's actually called a "heater booster" in the manuals since the pre-warmed air flows from the H/Es through the BA4. However it is a full-on gas heater with, I believe, the same BTU output of the BN2. It can also be used with the engine off on a cold morning. When the engine is off, it has a fan system similar to the late bay bus that blows air through the cold H/Es and through the heater unit. As with all gas heaters, it blows warm air in about 10 seconds and will sweat you out in a few minutes.
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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VWporscheGT3
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Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought if someone built a enclosed gear cradle with three gears so the last gear would be turning the same direction as the input gear that would solve the linkage problem.. it would have to be made from steel or a decent grade of aluminum for ridgidity but it would allow you to not make a bent shift bar to get down to the tranny. it would just be a ridged "drop Leg" to allow the same movements be transmitted below.... heres a crappy drawing
the square on the left is looking at it from the front or back... the other illustrates (crudely) how it would link up the red bar if the shift rod, the blue is the 901 style tranny... im sorry my drawing is horrible ... paint and I are not friends
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Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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VWporscheGT3
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Joined: September 01, 2006
Posts: 2076
Location: Gardnerville, NV
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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ahhh but wait the top cog would need full support so a bearing cradle would need to be made to support the Shift rod and gear enclosure so everything wouldnt be floppin around too ... not hard to do at all!
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Schnell, SCHNELL!
I like being wrong, Because, it is another opportunity to learn. If you stop learning from your mistakes than what is the point?
If you have any questions about Forged ICON 4032 VW pistons just shoot me a line. |
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supaninja
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Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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66311
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2006
Posts: 1477
Location: Olive Branch MS
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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I am hoping to see an hydraulic clutch in the works.
Excellent build thread. Thanks. |
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RennyRB
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Joined: August 10, 2006
Posts: 979
Location: Torrance
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Is this one of Porsche's "dog leg" (1st gear left and back) pattern transmissions? I was gonna suggest a Berg 5 shifter but if the pattern is flipped, maybe not..
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vlad01
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Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| supaninja wrote: |
| I think 2 universal joints and a short shaft will get the job done with very positive shifts. |
yep that works fairly well. I did this in a buggy way back in my high school days. i used an old VB commodore steering column which happen to have 2 tiny uni joints.
Last edited by vlad01 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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supaninja
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vlad01
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Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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only problem is the shaft at the shifter end need to be fully supported and needs to have the shaft full floating inside it.
So either a steel or brass bushes or linear bearings.
the other problem arises from movement of the gearbox as the shifter end that is supported can't move with the box so you can get shifting problems when the engine/box bounch around.
To fix this problem I pretty much sold mounted it, but shouldn't be a problem with IRS as they don't bounce sideways or twist like SA ones do when cornering hard. |
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supaninja
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Nate M.
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Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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The double u-joint would be my first choice as well,. . . Until you look under the car and realize that the fwd, center, suspension sub-frame mount makes that all but impossible. With the length of the shift shaft that sticks out of the transmission and the available clear "Y" area left before the center mount, you quickly realize that the shaft angle would need to be at about a 50-60 degree angle up just to clear the sub-frame. . . Not possible!! The more steep the angle on the shaft, the more difficult the shifting becomes. Needless to say the chance of binding with the u-joints as they rotate side to side.
When Jake Raby did his double cab, there is nothing in his way under there so he could make it a nice gradual angle (around 20-25 degrees or less) which makes for a really nice shifting angle with no binding. You could do a similar type of thing in a Beetle, Ghia or Thing. But a T-3 is a whole different animal since it has that sub-frame to deal with that really is an immovable object.
To complicate matters on my car, I also had to space the suspension sub-frame 1.5" off the body so that I didn't have to cut into the body below the rear seat for a trans pocket (these are tall trannys). This was another immovable object since the rear seat on a Square fits into the same bit of real estate. making a trans pocket would necessitate trimming a rather large chunk out of my rear seat back which would cause me to have a hole in my cargo area when the seat is folded flat. Not the best feature for a car meant for hauling stuff for my shop. The spacing of the suspension aggravates the already steepening angle of the shift shaft and made it a fill 5"+ vertical drop from stock!! The vertical drop for a bus or beetle is only about 3-4" at most.
My solution was a combination if a 3-piece shift rod/coupler that uses about a 4" angled rigid drop rod and an aircraft heim joint to remove the rotational stiction and provide 2 more areas of adjustment. I know that last sentence sounds like "blah, blah, blah" but when I have it fine tuned and working perfect, I'll show some pics of the final unit. I plan to make another once this prototype is done so the final one looks good. This one has some pretty crude welds, was thrown together using whatever I had laying around and is frankly a little embarrassing quality-wise to go posting up. 
Of course, if I can't get this plan "B" working exactly to my liking, I also have a plan "C" which I may test regardless so I can do a side-by-side comparison with version "B". Plan "D" is going cable shift, but I don't really want to go that route.
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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Nate M.
Samba Member
Joined: August 11, 2003
Posts: 1306
Location: Anacortes, WA U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| RennyRB wrote: |
| Is this one of Porsche's "dog leg" (1st gear left and back) pattern transmissions? I was gonna suggest a Berg 5 shifter but if the pattern is flipped, maybe not.. |
The 915 has a traditional 5-speed pattern with reverse gear below 5th on the right side. The old Porsche 901/902s (911-'65-'71; 914-'70-'76) had the "dog-leg 1st gear with reverse above 1st on the left side.
_________________
Regards,
Nate M.
Squarsche build
Heavy Metal Affliction feature
For heaven's sake, put a type4 and a Porsche 5-speed in there. . . It's the right thing to do!! |
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RennyRB
Samba Textbook Gangsta
Joined: August 10, 2006
Posts: 979
Location: Torrance
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| Nate M. wrote: |
| RennyRB wrote: |
| Is this one of Porsche's "dog leg" (1st gear left and back) pattern transmissions? I was gonna suggest a Berg 5 shifter but if the pattern is flipped, maybe not.. |
The 915 has a traditional 5-speed pattern with reverse gear below 5th on the right side. The old Porsche 901/902s (911-'65-'71; 914-'70-'76) had the "dog-leg 1st gear with reverse above 1st on the left side. |
Wünderbar. This may be painfully obvious, but why not just modify the 912 setup to suit?
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supaninja
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