73 FI type 3 dist parts. Not looking for parts here . Thought's

[blues90]

First off, I know what the results of my posts will be. I don't care. Perhaps the photos will help someone. I really don't need any help for a certain member here and I will be polite and not name names, you know who you are.

I have a 311 905 205AH I rebuilt in my car . All it needed were the fiber washers . got those in 09 from Glenn.

I also have a AF and AG both have the same numbers different last letters.

I have enough fiber shaft washers and new metal shims to do both yet the drive dog on the AF is beat. I only need one just as a spare. I have new felt between the bushings and for the upper shaft and new O'rings for the seal.

The only thing I can't get are the 2 red fiber washers that sit under the advance weights. Both were missing one and one of those fell apart.

I have other posts in 2009 when I rebuilt the AH and those red fibers were like new. The one I have does have the small bumps to allow less friction.

All I can find that is the proper OD and ID and thickness is a box of red fiber washers on Amazon . Now idea what temp they handle

I now know why when I had the AF in my car why is began to ping out of the blue . it has too much axial play , the fiber shaft washers were all shot and the weight only had one fiber washer. The AF and AG have never been apart and on both there is a bit of wear on the weights where they meet the advance cam . All 4 are the same weight and shape so I can either polish that out or use the best 2 .

point of all this is I thought of making 2 washers either out of copper and brass not aluminum. Then I saw these.

All I can do is test to see if oil affects them and how much heat they can handle . Basically using the best dist housing and weights and advance plate and advance cam. Both have no bushing or shaft wear.

I already have the advance plate from the AF cleaned and lubed it was the original in the AH yet I couldn't use it because when I had pertronix that plate has the braided ground sitting flat right where the pert fit . Now I went back to points . The other difference in the original AH plate is the steel spring deal that holds the ball does not screw on , it slides on the edge of the plate and engages a nub to lock it in place the AG screws on like the AF or rather the original for the AH plate . I guess later on in 73 VW did things a bit cheaper. I have not taken photos of the advance and weights removed. I did make a tool that makes it easy to pop the upper shaft clip off , takes a second to do this .

Here are some photos the AG has the felt puck in the upper advance.

The AF in this PIC is on the left

I had to correct one thing I kept saying AJ when in fact it is an AF. Wondered why AJ was always highlighted in red.

[blues90]

I used this to pop off the C clip on the advance shaft.

It's for pulling wheels off HO locomotives . I just made the c shaped opening a bit larger so it fits right under the points cam . One turn with a hex key and it pops right off.

[raygreenwood]

Wow!

Did you make that? I have one similar but not quite as well finished that I had to make to work on my HO scale loco's for pulling wheels and worm gears.

Nice hack!
I use kind of a tubular punch made from an old 1/4" drive socket to re-install the C-ring. I use a punch with a nylon bushing around it with a mallet to drive the shaft out.

I caught the reference.

I dont really care fi you want my input or not. Free country!

If you need a drive dog just ask. I will drop one in the mail. I have spares.

The drive dog part # from "most" type 4 distributors is 111 905 247. It fits 7 out of the 10 distributors listed for type 4 except. The last three listed for M27 (cali emissions) M553 (us spec but late engine with exhaust emissions- probably cali) and M157 (also cali).

You might ask Glenn what the PN for your drive dog is. I have maybe two actual type 3 D-jet distributors. I will look to see if the "clocking" of the drive pin hole is different.

You can get metric phenolic washers at McMaster carr. The M3 washers range from about 0.016" to 0.024" thick with an ID pf 3.2mm and an )D of 6.8mm. They also have M3.5 and M4. I will have to measure a pin from the weights and see what it is.

Did not copy the page number but if you search on Mcmaster for "garrolite washers" it takes you to this page. If the metric ones do not fit exactly, check the SAE ones above it.

Ray

[blues90]

No I didn't make the puller . Last time in 2009 when I rebuilt my AH dist I used a small needle nose to spreed the C clip enough to get it off . This time I knew I had this NWSL HO wheel puller all i had to do was open up the C shaped cutout out it was 1/2 " so I opened it up to 9/16". I made it so it would just grab the lower end of the point cam and then since there is not much room between the ram I needed to leave the inner nut so it just meets the end of the rams threaded section so I could get dist advance end to fit then once in place I could bring that into the nut which fits right in then once turn with a hex key the C clip is off and is also trapped from flying away.

This is it.
https://www.walthers.com/the-puller?utm_term=&...GNEALw_wcB

Mine is old it only came with the larger tip ram screw .

I have two Distributors an AF off the 72 and an AG I got from a fellow for $40 I wanted the vacuum can .

The dog is perfect on the AG the AG is for a 73 FI manual trans mine is an auto yet the curves are very close and it's just a spare in case deal. The point cam on the AG is smooth the AF is worn with grooves on the high point. I don't know why the dogs would be different for Cali cars. All I do know is the AF
F and AG are both the same . The AF has tear marks on both ears telling me at some point not in my car it jumped out of the drive notches. I won't use that one . I do know the AH dog is a calif dist and as far as I know the AF and AG are as well. I admit I do not understand why Calif dogs would be clocked different in relation to the pin. My guess is for emissions plus if they are then is since the trigger cam locks onto a spine and the one weight pin fits in the cams one notch than they didn't change that just the dog . I'll have to compare the two AF and AG cams to see if the cam position is the same and compare the dogs again . I assumed they were the same I need to be sure. Edit I just checked both dogs and the pin on both is 90 degrees to the two ears. As
also looked at the trigger cam clocking on the shaft and both are the same.

I took photos will post later.

Thank you for the offer Ray.

I'm just trying to make one good out of two but so far the AG is in better shape . Both need the red fiber washers under the weights yet I got a set in a box off amazon an assortment yet it does have a pile of 9mmODx7mmIDx1mm thick . They are not with the dimples for less friction and are not all 1mm thick my old one that was still alive was .043" =1.09mm yet they do not burn in high heat and hold up to oil and grease. They will work. The only issue is the weight pins have a bit of wear since seen in the photos there is rust. The bushings and shafts are great shape. I did see some grooves warn in the weights where the advance cam arms meet so I polished those out different grades wet dry then polish on a fine stone also polished the advance cam edges that meet the weights. I didn't change the profile since the weights are not curved on that area. The groove was not deep maybe .002" but enough to cause issues.

I have two advance plates one was original to the 73AH that one I cleaned before yet the spring steel clip snaps on the edge of the plate and is held by a small nub the AG has the screw type and is not warn so I'll use that one.

I do have 4 of the larger OD fiber washers got then from Glenn Ring in 2019 plus 6 thicknesses on steel large shims and 4 2 from each dist steel shims that fit in the trigger cam so I use one to mark out the OD on one large fiber washer and file it to fit in the trigger cam and that worked on the AH.

The only part I don't like is the wear on the weight pins . It's not real bad the weight holes have no wear . I feel with the new red shims under the weights the wear is low on the pins so they way be fine.

Back in 2009 when this ping using the AF came about now I see why once I took it apart . All the fiber was dust and a missing weight washer and the rust and not a trace of lube except the advance shaft to main shaft and lower shaft . I got new felt for the wick in the lower shaft recess and new puck felt for the advance . Bought a cheap set of punches from auto zone one tapered 1/8" and one 1/8" pin punch . the AF was difficult even after 24 hours of penetrating oil the AG was easy to drive out. I still need to clean the springs and screws and cap clips them dry fit the fiber and shims in the trigger cam to make certain the cam clears the trigger plate then see what shims I need to set the axial play . both only had a fiber washer above the drive dog should be at least one steel shim I hope I can get 1 steel and the fiber than another steel or at least one fiber at the body and one steel before the dog.

I read as well as can see many use grease on the upper steel and fiber in the trigger cam because oil never gets up there . I oiled the AH there. Which once oiled stays there. Once I get this one done I can pull the AH and see what needs to be addressed . Since I rebuilt it there are not many miles on it less than 2000.

I did install a working can on the AH and set the timing @ 5 BTDC yet once warmed up it pinged. Either it's the flat top pistons I used when I rebuilt the engine in 97 higher compression or the crappy gas. I did notice the pickup was better with the vacuum advance yet it's good without it. Not sure what I'll do about this . For some reason before I removed the pertronix as well as after I went back to points it ran stronger @ 3 BTDC . I also realize if one retards the timing it changes the injection timing all could do was move the trigger points as far CCW as the slop in the trigger point mount holes allow and that worked to compensate. I use the 89 octane over priced gas here to help some. All I can do if I want the vacuum advance is drive it till hot then if it pings back if off till is does not and see what the timing at idle lands. My thought is it's the gas who knows what the ethanol content is , the pumps state no less that 10% well it could be 15 or 20%.

[gt1953]

Hello I have for sale in the classifieds here it is let me know.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2360773
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[blues90]

photos . drive dogs

the one on the right is the AF see the tangs. Also the pin to tang is the same.

AG cleaned up the pin wear.

AG

AG polished weight contact edge

AG point cam

AF wear in weight I polished out on AG

AF point cam

Basically the same weight pin on both units have the same wear even though I have not cleaned the AF what to expect when there was no fiber washer let alone most of all no lube.

Over all the AG is in better shape . If I use the AF shaft and AG advance for the better point cam it may be a bit better. I need to clean the AF shaft to know. I have to use the AG advance section because if I don't then the arms retaining the advance springs will alter the curve . Even if I could measure their position the cam is garbage.

[heimlich]

The dogs are all the same on VW's. Just find a VW distributor and pull it off.
Repair pins are here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2554377

If the shaft is worn it will wear the points down quickly. If you have pertronix this will not matter.
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[blues90]

[heimlich]

[blues90]

[heimlich]

I think can help you out with the vacuum canister. It looks like you can use 265 vacuum canister. Stock was the 505. If you can use the 265 one let me know. Give me a call if you prefer like last time.
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[blues90]

[heimlich]

[blues90]

I looked at the curves in the Bentley . It seems the 265 comes in earlier and peaks @ 2000 rpm and ends @ 2500 also @ 100 Hg and ends @ 200 Hg/

The 505 @ 1800 rpm is 100 Hg 2000 @ 100 Hg 3000 @150 Hg and peaks @ 3400 and ends @ 5000 yet from 3400 rpm to 5000 it stays the same. So at less vacuum the 265 starts . Yet vacuum is related to RPM and load. It does appear the 265 would lessen the vacuum advance curve. As I see it.

The charts show engine RPM so dist speed is double, If I recall.

[heimlich]

265

505

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[blues90]

[blues90]

I don't understand how the 2 advance springs work. I know the thin wound is the primary yet the heavy spring doesn't seem to have tension on it.

Do they work together? " don't have anything to spin it fast just 1/2" drills yet the shaft is not long enough. I know when you turn the cam and it springs back that is just the light spring.

There is nothing on the internet I can find.

[heimlich]

The weights pull on the springs which provide tension.
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Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)

[blues90]

[blues90]

In the photo above you see the weight pivot pins , then the upper shaft . Where the upper shaft meets the weight plate the shaft is larger in diameter.

There was a thin plastic ring that fit over that , it was about 3/32" tall and a wall thickness of 1/32" and it sat flush with the top of that upper shaft boss.

What is it? My only guess since it only meets the weights it acts as a stop or spacer that the weights rest on when they are fully at rest.