| Author |
Message |
61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| motiheal wrote: |
Hi. I am restoring a kit car on a '65 Beetle chassis. The air cleaner is missing. I saw this forum thread-- it helped, thanks. But there is not a lot of clearance with the kit body; it has to be a short air filter or a Ghia type. I'd like to know my choices here. Does it have to be oil-bath?Have to have the preheat hose and breather hoses? Would an Empi square filter work? They are short and have a breather hose hole. Thanks, John
|
No, it doesn't have to be an oil bath. You can run a paper element in your region I'm guessing about 3-4 warm and dry months out of the year.
But to use and enjoy the car for three or four seasons, you're going to want to have a full stock Ghia or Bus air cleaner with working pre-heating hardware on it...
| gregson1 wrote: |
'65 Karmann Ghia 40Hp engine.
|
_________________
-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12468
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have used the first section of an early bus elbow which comes off the carb and veers over the generator then used a K and N eight inch round filter it worked well in a confined space.  cheers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
motiheal
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Long Island NY
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: Breather hose |
|
|
I found this on the web when researching on my need for a breather hose, as I restore the 1200 cc engine--
"With little or no pressure drop at the top of the breather because of substitution of the stock air cleaner with an aftermarket one, any extra pressure in the crankcase causes the oil mist to push out past the spiral groove and through the slots behind actually, in front of the pulley. This oil mist, of course, settles out inside the engine compartment and can make a real mess.
So, for the crankcase ventilation system to work properly, it is essential that 1 a vacuum is established in the air cleaner, and 2 the hose between the oil filler and the air cleaner be in place so that crankcase gases are sucked up into the air cleaner and thence into the carburetor and intake manifold for burning."
My questions are-- 1. how am I supposed to know what aftermarket air filter system will provide the necessary pressure difference? 2. How did this originally work with an oil bath filter? 3. Is it better to not hook this up? Thanks again, John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
motiheal
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Long Island NY
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| glutamodo wrote: |
...and the generator is installed 90 degrees off.
The air cleaner does not have to be an oil bath - those are the best ones but in your case... ghia/bus styles are OK but many of them are bulky and may not work that great for your body. I would aim for something better than the really cheap round foam filters though. The rectangular EMPI style... better... not great but it may be the best affordable choice here. |
How am I supposed to rotate the generator? Just unbolt-rebolt? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The 4 bolts to the shroud have to come out and the strap loosened. It's difficult to access the bottom ones without lifting the shroud first - which requires the strap to be loosened first and the shroud unattached on the sides. The reason for it needing to be rotated over 90 degrees is to allow the cooling tin inside the shroud to be in proper place for airflow though the generator. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Breather hose |
|
|
| motiheal wrote: |
I found this on the web when researching on my need for a breather hose, as I restore the 1200 cc engine--
"With little or no pressure drop at the top of the breather because of substitution of the stock air cleaner with an aftermarket one, any extra pressure in the crankcase causes the oil mist to push out past the spiral groove and through the slots behind actually, in front of the pulley. This oil mist, of course, settles out inside the engine compartment and can make a real mess.
So, for the crankcase ventilation system to work properly, it is essential that 1 a vacuum is established in the air cleaner, and 2 the hose between the oil filler and the air cleaner be in place so that crankcase gases are sucked up into the air cleaner and thence into the carburetor and intake manifold for burning."
My questions are-- 1. how am I supposed to know what aftermarket air filter system will provide the necessary pressure difference? 2. How did this originally work with an oil bath filter? 3. Is it better to not hook this up? Thanks again, John |
Not sure which internet authority you're quoting, but on a basic level, relative PCV pressure in any IC engine is a product of...
A-The blow by past the rings during the combustion stroke. General engine design, wear and health play a big part here. The more piston/cylinder/ring wear the more gas pressure will escape past them, increasing positive PCV pressure. There is no set standard of measurement nor specs for said pressure in an old ACVW, which can also change drastically from cold start to fully warmed up, brand new to worn out.
B-The simple pumping nature of the pistons going up and down within the crankcase creates a little positive pulsating pressure in itself.
You have to think of the engine in a dynamic state too. The cyclic pulses of positive PCV pressure vs the vacuum pulses created by the intake strokes of all four cylinders varies by RPM. Going to need a lab full of engineers for the real answer.
I can say most here within this forum including myself usually rely on the VW engineers who designed and calibrated the stock system. Any diversion from stock generally results in some sort of a compromise one way or another.
The stock air cleaners do hold a large volume of air at any one time, so I would think they naturally do a better job of containing and equalizing those aforementioned opposing pulses better than a small paper air filter housing with a PCV nipple stuck to it would.
Attempt to answer ?'s:
1-From what I've seen over the years, most all aftermarket paper or mesh type air filters are based on an off the shelf element, where all they have to do is design a base and a top to make it fit a VW carb and Walla, they make a buck or two each sale. How much R&D goes into PCV vapor containment is no doubt little to none. Stick a nipple off to the side and be done with it.
2-How did this work stock? The OG way is keep everything stock, and within tolerance...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/withoutguesswork.php
...and it has to work!
3-PCV vapor recovery in any IC engine is beneficial.
#1 reduces harmful exhaust and engine emissions,
#2 reduces oil sludge by removing moisture and acids with the crankcase vapors.
AFA your Generator issue, might want to start your own topic on that.
Please remember this is the Beetle Air Cleaners - picture reference thread
_________________
-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
motiheal
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Long Island NY
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Breather hose |
|
|
| awesome response, thanks so much |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KoKane
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Finleyville, PA
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here is the engine filter housing on my 52.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
motiheal
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2015
Posts: 60
Location: Long Island NY
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: gas filter |
|
|
| wondering where the gas filter is located? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69829
Location: Phoenix Metro
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| KoKane wrote: |
Here is the engine filter housing on my 52.
|
Cool looking filter. That's not a stock 25 hp air cleaner is it ?
By the way we live in the same neighborhood if you ever need a helping hand with a wrench. I'm a Monongahelian. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KoKane
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Finleyville, PA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hey Thomas, we're like neighbors almost! I've seen that style air cleaner on a few other split windows. The majority of pics I've looked at had the T style, but some had this style. Not sure what the story is about them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1291
Location: South West (Pa.)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KoKane
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Finleyville, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hey thanks for the info. I do like the look of the cyclone air cleaner, and these links were interesting. I'm going to see if I can find out more info on them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KoKane
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2013
Posts: 38
Location: Finleyville, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting information. I'm not sure these are the same as the one I have. I have seen a few pics of beetles that have the exact same setup as me. It has a screen in it, so I'm not sure if it sits vertical or not, if that would make a difference. But thanks for sharing the info |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jays58s
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 2133
Location: Nor-Cal
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle Air Cleaners - picture reference thread |
|
|
| 1961 only Beetle air cleaners have NO breather nipple on them. The air cleaners with the breather nipples on the bottom of the snorkel are 1962 only. Also, regarding the cleaning of the filter tops, Castrol Super Clean works just as good, if not better than Purple Power. You definitely have to be careful with it, it's very strong stuff and will strip the paint. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
panicman
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011
Posts: 2290
Location: Canby, OR
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle Air Cleaners - picture reference thread |
|
|
Adding for this thread the unrestored 2/60 Mann filter for my 1960 beetle, which was produced March 16, 1960.
What remains of the maintenance decal is in both German and English. There was an orange fill line inside which is now mostly gone.
The clips are assembled using cotterpins, with the clamps being painted black and the latches left bare metal.
_________________
Plate of shrimp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle Air Cleaners - picture reference thread |
|
|
| No big rubber "O" ring?? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
panicman
Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011
Posts: 2290
Location: Canby, OR
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: Beetle Air Cleaners - picture reference thread |
|
|
No sign of an o ring. If I get one that is approximately 1 5/8", I assume it just rides on the intake tube, and the filter portion (top part) just rests on top of it?
I have a slightly later Knecht filter, and the intake has an obvious shoulder at the top where an o ring would sit. The Mann does not appear to have any obvious shoulder, but does have a distress- or wear- line where an o ring could have sat.
_________________
Plate of shrimp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
