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rickb67 Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: pittsburgh, pa
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: 1776, need rocker suggestions |
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I am in the process of building a 1776cc engine for my 67 bug. It has a 110 cam in it. I'm running dual kadrons that I have changed the jets in. EMPI 041 heads. I am wondering what rockers would be appropriate to use. I'm really in between using 1.1:1 or 1.25:1. My only concern is low end torque. I'll be using the car mainly for cruising, but may take it to the strip once in a while. |
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yamaducci Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010 Posts: 2335 Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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If you need to buy new/better rockers then just move up to the 1.25's the difference is almost negligable. You may pick up a few Lb's of torque.
I would at least use solid shafts and stock rockers with 911 adjusters. _________________ -John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I would go with the 1.25 rockers that have the adjuster on the pushrod end,there closer to 1.3 ratio(1.33 for the 2 sets I have). as far as the 911 adjusters on oe type rockers,the ones I have seen are pure junk,yes there the china ones.are there any other's??just sayen. |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Rick, if you are going to run 1.25's with a W110 I suggest you run dual valve springs. HD singles will be marginal on valve control and reliability. Are your empi 041 heads running the mis-matched 39 x 32mm valves with stock ports (no port work)? If so I'd skip the 1.25's as any gain would be small at best. The bigger the cam and the better the heads, the more the 1.25's will have an effect.
If you buy 911 adjusters, BUY 911 ADJUSTERS. Most everything else is a cheap copy. Buy once, cry once and have it for life for every engine you build. Kind of like Udo Becker lifters. Expensive but worth saving for. My 2 cents. _________________
Mitey62 wrote: |
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
RockCrusher wrote: |
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3483 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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^^^What my friend Darth said^^^ _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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rickb67 Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: pittsburgh, pa
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I am running dual valve springs. The question of which rocker arms to use is really a question that deals with the power band. I do want some top end performance, my fear is that the low end is going to suffer with the 1.25 rockers. I know that it will increase the amount of horsepower, but I don't want it to run terribly whenever just cruising the street. |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Again, I ask you, what size valves are in your heads? The 39 x 32mm that come in the 041 were designed as a smog head. The smaller exhaust valve increases heat in the head and was supposed to reduce emissions. Not a good idea for a performance head.
On the other hand, replace your exhaust valves with 35.5mm and do some mild port work and you'll have something to work a little better with your cam, engine size and better rockers. Or better yet, get some good heads, JMO.
I believe you are splitting hairs here with the 1.25's. Fact is you probably won't be able to tell any difference at all in low end torque (which should improve a bit) nor in top end HP. You could measure it on a dyno but from inside the car doubt you'd feel a thing. If you had a set of well ported 40 x 35.5mm heads with a W120 cam and you were contemplating adding the 1.25's, then you'd have something there.
Add the 1.25's if you like, I'd save my money, you won't lose any torque or HP......but you won't gain something that will make you say "Wow, I'm glad I added those 1.25"s" either. And they won't make your engine run rougher or be less smooth when cruising. _________________
Mitey62 wrote: |
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on. |
RockCrusher wrote: |
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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if you haven't ANY rockers at all, it makes sense to consider 1.25s. But if you have 1.1s I don't consider 1.25s much of an upgrade, the cost/benefit is astronomically expensive, because you need new push rods too. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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Alstrup Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007 Posts: 7221 Location: Videbaek Denmark
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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- Empi 041īs have 39/35 mm valves. Also known as "GO3" heads.
- What John said. And then, - it really depends on the rest of the engine whether you will gain much. if the heads are as out of the box it most likely wouldnt change much. If they are ported with small volume ports you would get some upper end power.
Personally I would NEVER run 1,25īs on a W110 cam. But thatīs me.
T |
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rickb67 Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: pittsburgh, pa
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Yes that's right the empi 041 heads have 39/35mm stainless steel valves. Sorry if I hadn't answered the question. John I have stock style 1.1 rockers with the old style clips. From what I have heard about the clips it is better to go with the newer style rockers. So I figured why not buy 1.25s.
John as far as pushrods are concerned I was under the impression that pushrod length would be the same. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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your impression is wrong Rick. A lot of shops either
don't know
or
know, but don't tell you
in either case it's not a good thing.
rickb67 wrote: |
Yes that's right the empi 041 heads have 39/35mm stainless steel valves. Sorry if I hadn't answered the question. John I have stock style 1.1 rockers with the old style clips. From what I have heard about the clips it is better to go with the newer style rockers. So I figured why not buy 1.25s.
John as far as pushrods are concerned I was under the impression that pushrod length would be the same. |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
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rickb67 Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: pittsburgh, pa
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I really appreciate the info. Could I use the original style rockers or would you switch to the newer style 1.1s. For what I am using the car for I'm not sure that I want to mess around too much with rocker geometry. I can, but does it really make sense? |
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rickb67 Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2009 Posts: 39 Location: pittsburgh, pa
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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I guess that my next question would be if I do have to change the geometry anyway, why not go with the 1.4s? |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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your rockers have to be compatible with the heads and cam.
You can NOT run rockers larger than 1.25s with the W-110 cam. If you want to run 1.4s, you need a different camshaft.
Your money is far better spent ditching the Kadrons for some dual 40 IDFs, and keeping the 110 cam and 1.1 rockers. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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[email protected] wrote: |
your rockers have to be compatible with the heads and cam.
You can NOT run rockers larger than 1.25s with the W-110 cam. If you want to run 1.4s, you need a different camshaft.
Your money is far better spent ditching the Kadrons for some dual 40 IDFs, and keeping the 110 cam and 1.1 rockers. |
and why is that? |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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not sure what you are asking, but Kadrons are horrible excuses for carburetors. _________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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110¬ more than 125's |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, you need to speak in English and complete sentences if you want someone to have a clue what you are asking.
mark tucker wrote: |
110¬ more than 125's |
_________________ It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!
Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net
"Like" our Facebook page at
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and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15309 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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mark tucker wrote: |
110¬ more than 125's |
Because Jack Engle himself said so. Do you get it now. The man that built the part said you can not use 1.4 rockers with his part. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3553 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Just asking a question;
If he went with 1.25 rockers, would he be able to adjust the rocker geometry with shims beneath the rocker assembly instead of changing the pushrod length? |
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