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UK Luke 72
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2867
Location: Little Britain
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 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: ACN super squishies |
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i think i understand the theory behind the way they work and ive got a rough idea of what i believe they look like but why is it such a closely guarded secret? surely if i wanted to make some knockoff versions i'd buy a set and be done with it.
this isnt a dig/rant or anything malicious... just thinking out loud really... |
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tncsparky
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Joined: November 29, 2008
Posts: 703
Location: santa rosa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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You have to sign a non-disclosure agreement. It is to protect John's investment in the development of them.
If he didn't have this, latest rage or empi would have these. They make Chinese copies of everything.
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UK Luke 72
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2867
Location: Little Britain
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| i appreciate that, what about these custom hand ported heads etc... why arent CNC copies made and churned out in their 000's? |
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andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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they have been..... how do you think they come up with the CNC ports in the first place  |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| changing a few things that dont realy matter can get past that.there have been somant different types of domes&piston tops you could not even begin to count or find all of them ,as for why hasent someone copied them ? who is going to bother??we dont even have a good copy of a nice flatop forged to use at an inexpensive cost. je,wiseco,cp?more than most want to spend on a vw. |
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ALB
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
| i appreciate that, what about these custom hand ported heads etc... why arent CNC copies made and churned out in their 000's? |
I heard through someone close to the Bergs that a number of years ago someone tried to sell them the cnc programming for their GB870 42/44x37 heads. They said no, someone else bought it and now when people buy a certain big company's cnc heads....
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On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
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andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| i wonder how that stands legally... i'd be niffed! |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15297
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: ACN super squishies |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
i think i understand the theory behind the way they work and ive got a rough idea of what i believe they look like but why is it such a closely guarded secret? surely if i wanted to make some knockoff versions i'd buy a set and be done with it.
this isnt a dig/rant or anything malicious... just thinking out loud really... |
40 years ago when a guy hand ported heads everybody was honest and nobody ever thought about stealing somebody else's work. 40 years ago CNC machines were not invented yet so coping something wasn't easily done.
John created the squishy pistons after the invasion of the Chinese copycat shit and had the forethought to protect his proprietary investment.
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stealth67vw
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Joined: January 22, 2004
Posts: 1852
Location: Grass Pants, Orygun
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: ACN super squishies |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
40 years ago CNC machines were not invented yet so coping something wasn't easily done.
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Actually, CNC (computer numeric control) has been around since 1949 using an IBM computer. Our shop manager has been doing CNC since the early 70s starting on Shizuoka CNC mills.
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JB Machining Services
1967 street Bug 2276 w/ 48 IDAs, 2020lbs with driver
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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The price is fair and the market is small, it is not worth trying to undercut John.
The level of attention it would take to set-up an engine with these would exclude most cheap morons anyway |
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veedubcrazy
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Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 2130
Location: La Porte, Tx.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I bet in a 2387, they would be the "stuff".
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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They truely are the "bee's knee's".
I've been fortunate enough to run against John down the quarter mile with his squishy motor. That's a fast damned street car right there!
Full street car, interior, everything. Not gutted, full back seat, etc.
The car runs so cool, that he has to run a dry sump pulley to slow the fan down as much as possible to try to get his head temps up in the middle of summer.
We are at 4400 ft. elevation at our track, regular air correction puts us anywhere between 7000 and 11000 ft.
He runs 12.40's with it up here. Seeing how everyone up here drops a full second when going down to run Sacramento at sea level, pretty safe to say that's a VERY mid 11-second street car. A REAL street car at that. One that runs very cool, runs on regular pump gas, and has gobs of torque to make every day driving a breeze.
I would love to MegaSquirt his car and see what we could get MPG-wise out of it with combustion chambers that efficient. He was pulling insane figures for power with regular 48IDF's. There is still more left in that engine if he went full EFI with it. I bet he could hit 50 miles per gallon at 65mph if I got ahold of an EFI tune with it.
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UK Luke 72
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2867
Location: Little Britain
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| Eaallred wrote: |
They truely are the "bee's knee's".
I've been fortunate enough to run against John down the quarter mile with his squishy motor. That's a fast damned street car right there!
Full street car, interior, everything. Not gutted, full back seat, etc.
The car runs so cool, that he has to run a dry sump pulley to slow the fan down as much as possible to try to get his head temps up in the middle of summer.
We are at 4400 ft. elevation at our track, regular air correction puts us anywhere between 7000 and 11000 ft.
He runs 12.40's with it up here. Seeing how everyone up here drops a full second when going down to run Sacramento at sea level, pretty safe to say that's a VERY mid 11-second street car. A REAL street car at that. One that runs very cool, runs on regular pump gas, and has gobs of torque to make every day driving a breeze.
I would love to MegaSquirt his car and see what we could get MPG-wise out of it with combustion chambers that efficient. He was pulling insane figures for power with regular 48IDF's. There is still more left in that engine if he went full EFI with it. I bet he could hit 50 miles per gallon at 65mph if I got ahold of an EFI tune with it. |
i still cant believe you get 40mpg out of yours Eaarllred
why arent more people running them, they're not that expensive... |
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SamT
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Joined: April 17, 2009
Posts: 1761
Location: Rule, Tx
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:32 am Post subject: |
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[quote="UK Luke 72"]
| Eaallred wrote: |
They truely are the "bee's knee's".
I've been fortunate enough to run against John down the quarter mile with his squishy motor. That's a fast damned street car right there!
Full street car, interior, everything. Not gutted, full back seat, etc.
The car runs so cool, that he has to run a dry sump pulley to slow the fan down as much as possible to try to get his head temps up in the middle of summer.
We are at 4400 ft. elevation at our track, regular air correction puts us anywhere between 7000 and 11000 ft.
He runs 12.40's with it up here. Seeing how everyone up here drops a full second when going down to run Sacramento at sea level, pretty safe to say that's a VERY mid 11-second street car. A REAL street car at that. One that runs very cool, runs on regular pump gas, and has gobs of torque to make every day driving a breeze.
I would love to MegaSquirt his car and see what we could get MPG-wise out of it with combustion chambers that efficient. He was pulling insane figures for power with regular 48IDF's. There is
i still cant believe you get 40mpg out of yours Eaarllred
why arent more people running them, they're not that expensive... |
If the chinese wanted to copy them John's patent. Ect would not stop them. That said, I have never use them, but I have seen one and have a hard time believeing they do much. I figure they are not popular because who on earth buys something they have never seen? And those that have seen, it doesn't look like a big deal. I'm sure when the patent is up some of the USA companies will make them. I'm gonna have to use a set for my self to become a believer though! |
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UK Luke 72
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2867
Location: Little Britain
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| I think the sold on the premise that John knows his stuff-blind faith you might call it... |
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Stripped66
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Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3469
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
| I think the sold on the premise that John knows his stuff-blind faith you might call it... |
Maybe John can correct me, but I think they are sold on the premise that the buyer has done their homework, understands the theory about how they work, acknowledges all of the other applications where this technology has been successfully applied, and has rejected the dogma that has haunted the acVW community. It's not blind faith when you see others successfully use this technology, both on our engines as well as several other engine platforms.
Maybe John is making a killing selling these pistons to unsuspecting fools, but I doubt it; I have yet to run across a fellow SS piston owner who was naive to the underlying theory and technology.
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
| i still cant believe you get 40mpg out of yours Eaarllred |
And my Squishy's are notched .120" deep for 48x38 valves. We did it as an experiment to see how much change there was vs. an un notched piston. A lot of the dome was cut away. I can still run on 91 octane and have run a couple of 11.70's , but temps were still much higher than Johns motor had. It does run cool enough on 91 octane that I could run a power pulley with Comp Eliminators and hold 70mph for an hour.
| UK Luke 72 wrote: |
why arent more people running them, they're not that expensive... |
Politics. All you need is one "big name" person on the forums to say "I don't get how they work, so they must not. Waste of money, domed pistons have been avaliable for a long time, there's nothing special about them", or something along those lines, and pretty soon you get all the internet parrots squaking the same thing in masses. It kills the idea.
It killed Carrerra 90/10 drag shocks specifically made for the light VW front end too. Carrerra quit making them because of low sales because of the same exact situation. Only a year or two after they were NLA, did people start realizing that they WERE in fact different (much different) than a V8 90/10 shock, and now IF you find a set for sale, they fetch a pretty penny.
I'm still bitter about that one. Ignorance of a few killed a great affordable product that was avaliable to everyone.
John is one of the few people in the VW industry making modern advancements in this hobby. I personally feel lucky to have someone like him around, and to be able to pick his brain now and again. He has a wealth of knowledge few match.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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73 KAFER
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Joined: September 02, 2007
Posts: 1385
Location: St. Marys, Pa.
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| I had read ther were some in nascar& other form of racing, did john make all of these too?I had seen some for a hemi type motor that were said to be SS pistons. |
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Chip 
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Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: |
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John didn't come up with the original idea for the SS piston design, he worked with THE guy to port it over to the ACVW world. Glad I've got me a set can't wait to put them to good use, oh and I got me a set of them 90/10s too!  |
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