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Robw_z
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 983
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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I would really like this, or some other tire than the BFG's to work out. I have been running 27 x 8.5 BFG's on my van for awhile, they look great and function great. But you can't buy them anymore, you can only buy the 195's, which I have not seen in person but they look kind of small and awkward to me.
As far as the Firestones above, what does the max inflation really say about the tire and why would a manufacturer make an LT tire that wouldn't carry 5,000 lbs down the freeway? People run passenger tires on their vans all the time, even my local watercooled VW mechanic runs them on his Westy(while admitting they officially are not within spec).
-Rob |
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dixoncj
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2004
Posts: 1083
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Robw_z wrote: |
I would really like this, or some other tire than the BFG's to work out. I have been running 27 x 8.5 BFG's on my van for awhile, they look great and function great. But you can't buy them anymore, you can only buy the 195's, which I have not seen in person but they look kind of small and awkward to me.
As far as the Firestones above, what does the max inflation really say about the tire and why would a manufacturer make an LT tire that wouldn't carry 5,000 lbs down the freeway? People run passenger tires on their vans all the time, even my local watercooled VW mechanic runs them on his Westy(while admitting they officially are not within spec).
-Rob |
The tech at the Firestone store was a good 'ol boy gearhead. He said he does all kinds of offroading and was hugely impressed with the toughness of these tires. Said he put a set of fifteen inch Destination AT's on a heavy 4x4 diesel suburban he had tricked out. If the tire exceeds specs for 3 of the four categories and misses by such a small amount on the fourth, I'm simply willing to take my chances. Others may not be. I have driven BFG AT/KO's, Michelins, Kumhos, BridgestoneAT's, (back when they made a 195-14) and Hancock's on a Westy. This is the best handling tire I have ever driven a Westy - and is an excellent size for putting a fat patch of rubber on the ground with a stiff sidewall and an aggressive, water shedding tread - which I think is highly important. I feel far safer with this than a set of pizzacutter 185 size RA08's driving across Charleston's Ravenel bridge during a 35knot nor'easter. I have braked with it in emergency stops and have put it through some pretty rough terrain - no bulges on the sidewalls, no funky behavior.
I'm not going to tell anyone what to do - but I stand by my decision to put these on mine. |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Robw_z wrote: |
| ...People run passenger tires on their vans all the time... |
20% of the adult population of the US are smokers.
Presumably because, so far, smoking a cigarette has never killed them. |
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dixoncj
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2004
Posts: 1083
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| Robw_z wrote: |
| ...People run passenger tires on their vans all the time... |
20% of the adult population of the US are smokers.
Presumably because, so far, smoking a cigarette has never killed them. |
As I understand it, we also have a great many unmarried marriage counselors in this country too... |
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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| dixoncj wrote: |
| vermontgirl wrote: |
| dixoncj wrote: |
| msewalson wrote: |
| vermontgirl wrote: |
| msewalson wrote: |
I'm running BFG's 195/75/14. I have no complaints, no problems in the snow, mud and rain. Some have commented about the noise but I haven't really noticed it.
Matt |
I'm putting these on my van tomorrow.
CHA-CHING!!  |
Yes, CHA-CHING. Are you getting a set of 4 or 5? |
If you're considering those, I would seriously recommend you consider Firestone Destination AT's in 225 70r14:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Destination+A%2FT
They only work with alloys, but I have them on my 91Westy - and I positively love them. They replaced a set of Kumho Solus 205/70/r14- which are supposed to meet Westy profile but really don't. The Destinations have a fat profile and are nicely grippy, good offroad tread, great in the rain and mud (so far) and similar radius to stock - so little/no power loss and way quieter than the BFG's. AND they meet the load criteria for a Westy and are less $$ than the BFG's.
I got a set of 4 at the firestone dealer installed/mounted for less than $500. I had a set of BFG's on my Syncro - and they're great. But good lord are they expensive. As long as I'm running stock 14 inch alloys, and as long as Firestone makes this tire, I'll be buying it. I've also been driving my sister's 85 Westy with stock steelies and the Ra08's. Never again will I put such small tires on a big westy. I don't care if they meet the load rating, the damn thing gets blown all over the road. My two cents. |
Ok. So I went to this tire guy that a lot of VW mechanics in Portland send their customer to. He told me over and over that this specific tire is NOT rated for a vanagon. I've checked all the specs but I have no idea what he is talking about. I don't think he's the kind of guy who just wants to make an extra buck. Last time I saw him he sold me 4 Hancooks for $400. He reiterated over and over that this tire is not safe for my van.
?? |
This tire IS ABSOLUTELY correctly rated for a Vanagon. I did my research. It has a 98S rating, is 6 ply sidewalls (correct) and has a max load of 1675 per tire at 44PSI. All these MEET criteria for a Westfalia. The only reason it will not work is if you have steel as opposed to alloy wheels. Steelies are too narrow. |
If u r 'blowing all over' with the RAo8's u have other problems ,probably press . My '88 westy has them and i can follow a 18-wheeler camly, stable in windy times too. I'm trying Firestone 'Storm beaters' on my syncro, sure have the traction , also the good stability, you'all do your own thing now. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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The 225/70R14 98S SL tire from Firestone above is a Standard Load tire.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Firestone&tireModel=Destination+A%2FT
It MUST be derated for van use by 9% per US DOT. Although SL is 1675 the 98 is 1653. So 1653 less 9% is 1653 - 149 = 1504.
Some Vanagon tire specs and recommendations:
http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html
(I can not find a ply rating for these tires to match the above claim of 6 ply rating.)
What does your tire sticker say about that?
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
What does your tire sticker say about that? |
The stickers for Vanagons, excepting the Syncro, says that a tire rated at 1433# meets the VW spec so a P225/70R14 would be fine.
Without checking I would guess that there are P225/70R14's out there with higher UTQG rating than the Firestones so additional searching might be value. |
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dixoncj
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2004
Posts: 1083
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| 1433. So it seems it is within spec. The Firestone guy told me 6 ply. |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| dixoncj wrote: |
| 1433. So it seems it is within spec. The Firestone guy told me 6 ply. |
He lied.
After the derated 9% you want to see at a minimum 1580 pounds. More is better. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
| dixoncj wrote: |
| 1433. So it seems it is within spec. The Firestone guy told me 6 ply. |
He lied.
After the derated 9% you want to see at a minimum 1580 pounds. More is better. |
The spec for all the Vanagons parked outside my place is 1433# nothing more nothing less, excepting the Syncro. The rating for a 225/70R14 tire is 98sl or 1653#, reduce this by 9% and you get 1503#, which according to pretty simple math is in excess of 1433#.
If more is always better, surely VW would have surely used 11r22.5 tires. |
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78'bus
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 76
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Just got a set of Continental 185R14 Vanco2 in my steeles... and I love how responsive the van is. Got to say that I bought my 84 Westy 2 months ago with passenger-type tires, and the upgrade in handling is outstanding.
FYI there are less than 90$ at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/BigPic.jsp?sidewall=...num=8QR4V2
_________________
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1984 Vanagon Westy, "Dora"
1978 Trans-Per, "Lulie" (SOLD) |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Good reading on this subject from RoadHaus site http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html. Not saying it is right or wrong, but well worth reading.
Edit: Below this line is copied from the site. Follow the link above for more info
1) In the table you can see the Load Carrying Capacity of each tire when inflated to VW's Recommended Inflation Values.
Notice that the Load Inflation Table values for the rear tires always shows inflations that are capable of carrying a load of 1580 lbs or Higher.
Refer back to the Vehicle Weight Carrying Capacities data.
Looking at the GAWR data we can conclude,
A 2WD Vanagon or Camper would see 1433 lbs on each rear wheel if loaded to capacity.
And a 4WD Syncro Vanagon or Camper would see 1521 lbs on each rear wheel if loaded to capacity.
So if we are carrying those weights, why did VW use tires with slightly higher capacities and inflate them to carry a load of 1580 lbs - MINIMUM.
In the tire industry they refer to this as "Reserve Capacity".
Perhaps another way to look at it is as a "SAFETY MARGIN".
The weight each rear tire could be subjected to with a full capacity load is dead weight and does not factor in driving stresses, emergency maneuvers,
handling or ride characteristics.
A vehicle and tire manufacturer working together develop the tire design that will produce the most satisfactory results.
In our case VW determined a tire with a Minimum Load Capacity of 1580 lbs was the correct choice for this vehicle.
So for any Vanagon ... we want a "MINIMUM of a 1580 lb rated tire" which equates to a Load Index of 97 .
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| vanagonjr wrote: |
And a 4WD Syncro Vanagon or Camper would see 1521 lbs on each rear wheel if loaded to capacity.
So if we are carrying those weights, why did VW use tires with slightly higher capacities and inflate them to carry a load of 1580 lbs - MINIMUM. |
VW used tires (205/70r14 reinforced) with only 4% excess load capacity on the Syncro according to what you copied, so it isn't any worse to run 225/70R14s on a Vanagon Kombi or Camper as 225/70R14's have 5% excess load capacity in those applications, that's even after being derated 9%. For what it is worth, the OEM 205/70R14 have been the best tires I have had on any of my Vanagons and by using them VW showed that they didn't believe that excess capacity was important. Just because you can make some rock hard truck tire with a 108 load rating fit the Vanagon wheels doesn't mean they are necessary. More isn't necessarily better. |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| vanagonjr wrote: |
And a 4WD Syncro Vanagon or Camper would see 1521 lbs on each rear wheel if loaded to capacity.
So if we are carrying those weights, why did VW use tires with slightly higher capacities and inflate them to carry a load of 1580 lbs - MINIMUM. |
VW used tires (205/70r14 reinforced) with only 4% excess load capacity on the Syncro according to what you copied, so it isn't any worse to run 225/70R14s on a Vanagon Kombi or Camper as 225/70R14's have 5% excess load capacity in those applications, that's even after being derated 9%. |
No, I don't see why not? No need to be defensve, I did not state, imply that they were. Heck, I like the 14" Firestones - the diameter is good too. I'd buy em, but I just got 16" rims.
| Wildthings wrote: |
[
For what it is worth, the OEM 205/70R14 have been the best tires I have had on any of my Vanagons and by using them VW showed that they didn't believe that excess capacity was important. Just because you can make some rock hard truck tire with a 108 load rating fit the Vanagon wheels doesn't mean they are necessary. More isn't necessarily better. |
Those are the tires I wanted to buy for my 1st van, but I couldn't get them! That's 13-14 years ago though - yikes, getting old. I never implied, stated, or even believe, that one needed 108 rating tires. If the link in the RoadHaus site leads to a page that states that, then that is his view not mine, I thought I just share the info. Peace brother, peace! Honest.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| vanagonjr wrote: |
No, I don't see why not? No need to be defensve, I did not state, imply that they were. |
Not replying just to you, but to others here who have regularly stated that more is better when it comes to tire ratings. VW obviously didn't think so, but some very vocal people try to imply that VW requires higher rated tires than the four and six ply tires most all US spec Transporters came with. |
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VanWilder
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2009
Posts: 1349
Location: PDX-Weird Town, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Robw_z wrote: |
I would really like this, or some other tire than the BFG's to work out. I have been running 27 x 8.5 BFG's on my van for awhile, they look great and function great. But you can't buy them anymore, you can only buy the 195's, which I have not seen in person but they look kind of small and awkward to me.
As far as the Firestones above, what does the max inflation really say about the tire and why would a manufacturer make an LT tire that wouldn't carry 5,000 lbs down the freeway? People run passenger tires on their vans all the time, even my local watercooled VW mechanic runs them on his Westy(while admitting they officially are not within spec).
-Rob |
You can still buy General Grabbers 27x8.5 14LT
_________________
VW
________________________
"83.5" Vanagon GL Air cooled "VanWilder"
VanWilder has given back to me more then I could ever put into it September 22, 2010
Malama Ka `Aina—"Respect the Land" |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
Not replying just to you, but to others here who have regularly stated that more is better when it comes to tire ratings. VW obviously didn't think so, but some very vocal people try to imply that VW requires higher rated tires than the four and six ply tires most all US spec Transporters came with. |
Well here is what these thing came with from the factory. You will not see any whimpyass "1433 pound specials" in this list for a good reason. That reason is that when a loaded bus is moving, there are other factors (other than a static or dead weight) requiring a bit of reserve tire load capactiy.
Vanagon & Camper
1984-1991
185R14C 6PR
- Min Load Index 99
- Max Load 1710 lbs
- Min Load Range C
- Max Inflation 55 psi
*205/70R14 97R
- Min Load Index 97
- Max Load 1580 lbs
- Max Inflation 40 psi
* Reinforced Sidewall Passenger car tire
Syncro Vanagon & Camper
1986-1991
185R14C 6PR
- Min Load Index 99
- Max Load 1710 lbs
- Min Load Range C
- Max Inflation 55psi
205R14C 6PR/8PR
- Min Load Index 109
- Max Load 2270 lbs
- Min Load Range D
- Max Inflation 65psi
*205/70R14 97R
- Min Load Index 97
- Max Load 1580 lbs
- Max Inflation 40psi
* Reinforced Sidewall Passenger car tire
I am just saying choose wisely and with an informed mind.
I like a nice 6 or 8 ply tire myself with a load index of about 100 because they handle a lot better. Chosse wisely. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50353
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
That reason is that when a loaded bus is moving, there are other factors (other than a static or dead weight) requiring a bit of reserve tire load capactiy.
I like a nice 6 or 8 ply tire myself with a load index of about 100 because they handle a lot better. Chosse wisely. |
As I have stated before, the 195R14 Hankooks which I had on my 83 1/2 had poor handling characteristics when heavily loaded, as far as I am concerned they are an experiment that didn't pan out. They seem to be fine on an unloaded van, but where squirrely when the load was increased to that which I usually carry when traveling. They and the 185R14 Hankooks I tried on my Bay both experienced rapid tire wear and have dangerous handling characteristic in snow even when the thread was new. The ones on my Bay, now that the thread is worn cause the Bay to get blown around badly in a cross wind. Several other narrow overly stiff LT or C rated tires I have tried over the years haven't done all that well either. As I said previously in this thread, VW had no problem with using tires that had only 4% excess load so the 5% excess load of using 225/70R14s is within what VW has historically used on these vehicles. Just because VW used tires that were above the axle load rating doesn't mean higher ratings are necessary, if you need a tire that can hold 1433# then if one that you like is not available you go up a bit higher in load rating, that is just normal engineering, it doesn't mean a tire rated at 2000# is in anyway necessary.
In case you still haven't figured it out all vehicles go around curves and over uneven surfaces. This fact is already engineered into the load ratings of the tires so no "bit" of reserve capacity is needed. |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| VanWilder wrote: |
[[img]
You can still buy General Grabbers 27x8.5 14LT
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Randy - cool rims!  My friend has those Grabbers on his Toyota van. He likes them, I driven the van many miles with them. A bit of road noise though, but overall he likes them.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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VanWilder
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2009
Posts: 1349
Location: PDX-Weird Town, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="vanagonjr"]
| VanWilder wrote: |
You can still buy General Grabbers 27x8.5 14LT
/quote]
Randy - cool rims! My friend has those Grabbers on his Toyota van. He likes them, I driven the van many miles with them. A bit of road noise though, but overall he likes them. |
For Light Duty beefy tire. I like'em!
_________________
VW
________________________
"83.5" Vanagon GL Air cooled "VanWilder"
VanWilder has given back to me more then I could ever put into it September 22, 2010
Malama Ka `Aina—"Respect the Land" |
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