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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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 Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| 1988M5 wrote: |
I was struggling with this a bit in an old conversation about airing down a wrong sized tire ( if your clam shell couldn’t fit the same size spare) so not to burden the differential with different spin rates. I retired from the discussion after getting beat up that it doesn’t work like that. But I’m reinspired that is does by remembering that many cars use the wheel speed sensor to detect a low pressured tire. If the pressure didn’t affect the final drive ratio, how could the tpms system detect an issue without the use of an actual pressure sensor inside the wheel?
Ok I’m ready to be beat up again. |
The diameter of a tire changes very little with tire pressure, but the amount of squirm-slippage against the road changes more markedly. |
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1988M5
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2016
Posts: 674
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:19 am Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
| 1988M5 wrote: |
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
That 205R14 tire size is listed on the driver door sticker showing the recommended inflation pressures.
Vanagon Syncros 86-91
205R14C
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I wonder if they recommend lower pressure to keep the same gear ratios/ speed? |
A tire has the same circumference and travel per revolution at 10 psi or 40 psi. While the tire diameter appears smaller that doesn't shrink the length of the tread.
Link
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I was struggling with this a bit in an old conversation about airing down a wrong sized tire ( if your clam shell couldn’t fit the same size spare) so not to burden the differential with different spin rates. I retired from the discussion after getting beat up that it doesn’t work like that. But I’m reinspired that is does by remembering that many cars use the wheel speed sensor to detect a low pressured tire. If the pressure didn’t affect the final drive ratio, how could the tpms system detect an issue without the use of an actual pressure sensor inside the wheel?
Ok I’m ready to be beat up again.
_________________
1991 tin top GL
2002 Winnebago Vista. VW VR6 24V Eurovan front clip powered class C 21' RV.
Some BMWs. |
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brickster
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: CO, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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Good point on the derating of the Altimax. Between that and the quality reports, perhaps best to stay away.
The Petlas look exactly like what I was looking for. A quick search didn't show them as being available locally, so perhaps they would be a ship to installer choice? It would be great to have another stock diameter & load range option different from the summer/highway/commercial tires (Vantra & Thunderer).
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7756
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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Damn…that ^^^ looks pretty decent for snow! I’d spring for them if I had the van out in the winter at all.
| brickster wrote: |
| [Altimax] are actually well up to the task with a max load rating of 1653lbs. |
…although, not being XL or LT rated, subject to 9% derating (like any passenger tire used on a 5000# van).
9% is a significant loss of safety margin, although still gets you about 1500# per tire…just sayin.
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Xevin 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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My buddy is running these on his 76 Westfalia. He likes getting muddy and long walks on the beach  He has a couple buses and probably only puts 5000 miles on each bus. These are only 6 months old so time will tell. They are winter tires so not going to last long but he loves them so far. Very quiet and comfortable. Oregon rain and beach sand has not been a problem. He’s had all the usual 14” tires. Just something to look into. They cost him less than the Vantras. Cost wasn’t the reason he bought them. He manages a fleet of trucks similar to UPS trucks. The guy they use for tire replacements recommended them. Again just something to look into, I’ll update in the future. YMMV.
Petlas full grip pt935 185r14c
https://www.petlas.com/pcr-detail/full-grip-pt935
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4777
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| How long ago did these failures happen? Where the tires "standard load" or "extra load (XL)" |
hmmmm maybe 3 years ago at most. standard load as these were on a Honda Civic, Ford Focus, and Buick Century.
currently bought the Michelin X-Ice Snow for my wife's Prius and Blizzak WS90 for daughter's Subaru. before that was running Cooper Evolution Winter on a variety of cars but doesn't pertain to Vanagons due to load rating. Done with the General Altimax Arctics due to sidewall blow outs. again, not Vanagon load rated but mebbe indicative. dunno. fool me once....
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
i ran a bunch of General Altimax Arctic snow tires, at least 12 mebbe more, on various vehicles and experienced 2 sidewall blowouts like that photo. it was a totally different tire but had the same explosive blowout and put me off of those tires for the current term. they went out with a shotgun-like report. something ain't right at General in the Altimax line. |
How long ago did these failures happen? Where the tires "standard load" or "extra load (XL)" |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| dhaavers wrote: |
| borninabus wrote: |
| i run the altimax on my TDI wagon and they are so good, i bought some for the wife's car... |
Question is: How are they in snow, dirt, sand & mud? |
i've had them up to about 65mph on this road. that's my dust cloud in the background. beyond that, they started feeling a little sketchy. so in direct answer: on my wagon, in the loose dirt, pretty good. they feel as good in the wet as higher tier tires i've had. sand: i stay out. snow? i live in phoenix. what's that?
i can also say from first hand experience that P rated tires wear out pretty quick when used on a van.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 4777
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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i ran a bunch of General Altimax Arctic snow tires, at least 12 mebbe more, on various vehicles and experienced 2 sidewall blowouts like that photo. it was a totally different tire but had the same explosive blowout and put me off of those tires for the current term. they went out with a shotgun-like report. something ain't right at General in the Altimax line.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| wbailey2112 wrote: |
| brickster wrote: |
| They are actually well up to the task with a max load rating of 1653lbs. |
Check out this informative article on the Bus Depot website that includes photos of a General Altimax with sidewall failure.
https://www.busdepot.com/details/tires/ |
Yep the failure looks just like what has happened to some of the 185r14C Hankook RA08s that were being pushed so strongly a few years back.
FWIW, I remember the Altimax 205/70R14XL tire did have some problems when it first came out, but I haven't heard of problems in quite a while now so I assume they have been taken care of. |
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wbailey2112
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2015
Posts: 483
Location: Grove City, OH
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| brickster wrote: |
| They are actually well up to the task with a max load rating of 1653lbs. |
Check out this informative article on the Bus Depot website that includes photos of a General Altimax with sidewall failure.
https://www.busdepot.com/details/tires/
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'74 Thing
'83 Westfalia |
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brickster
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: CO, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| wbailey2112 wrote: |
| They are great tires however I do believe that the load rating and the sidewall construction would be suitable for installation on my top heavy Westy. |
They are actually well up to the task with a max load rating of 1653lbs.
Thanks all for your input on this tire. I am staying away from the Grabbers because I have a stock 1.9 and live at high altitude. I need as much gearing advantage as I can get, and these are identical diameter to stock.
Back when I was looking, I don't remember seeing this one. If someone picks them up for a Vanagon, please report back.
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wbailey2112
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Joined: October 02, 2015
Posts: 483
Location: Grove City, OH
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:42 am Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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I have the General Alitmax RT43 installed on my '74 Thing and on my Honda Element. I have a set of the RT45 on our CR-V. They are great tires however I do not believe that the load rating and the sidewall construction would be suitable for installation on my top heavy Westy.
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'74 Thing
'83 Westfalia
Last edited by wbailey2112 on Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7756
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:55 am Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| borninabus wrote: |
| i run the altimax on my TDI wagon and they are so good, i bought some for the wife's car... |
Question is: How are they in snow, dirt, sand & mud?
i.e…
| brickster wrote: |
| brickster wrote: |
| Is anyone running the AltiMAX RT45 205/70R14 in Load Index 98? |
I am tempted to try these simply because my Vantras are not useful for loose surfaces (snow, dirt, sand and mud) |
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4536
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:31 am Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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i run the altimax on my TDI wagon and they are so good, i bought some for the wife's car. had no idea they were available in 14".
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:05 am Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| brickster wrote: |
| Are you saying there's a difference in offset between stock steels and aluminums? |
The alloys are wider by 1/2" and I think there is a slight difference in the offset, IIRC. What works on one may well work fine on the other, but then again, maybe not.
27x8.5R14 work fine on my '83 1/2 Vanagon which rides high and has steel rims, but rubbed on my '91 which rides lower and has factory alloy rims. How much is ride height and how much it the wheels?
Also the 215/75r14's I have on my '91 today don't rub while the 27x8.5R14 which are nearly the same height and overall width did, I suspect the answer here is the tread width and the curvature of the outer edge of the tread, with the 27x8.5R14s having a slightly wider tread with a sharper edge. |
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dhaavers
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7756
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| brickster wrote: |
| brickster wrote: |
| Is anyone running the AltiMAX RT45 205/70R14 in Load Index 98? |
I am tempted to try these simply because my Vantras are not useful for loose surfaces (snow, dirt, sand and mud) |
The Altima is an all-season tire. I’d expect them to be <marginally> better than the Vantras, but maybe not.
FWIW: For 14” rims, I’m a big fan of the General Grabbers…snow, loose dirt, sand, mud, rocks…
They just work! 
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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vanagonjr
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Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| I measured the difference in circumference with pressure 20+ years ago. Since the spare tire on an old FJ40 sits on a swing carrier in the back of the rig and is very accessible, I choice it to experiment with. The tire would have been a P235/75r15. IIRC the difference in the circumference going from 0 psi to 40 psi was minor, like 3/16 of an inch. |
I observed the same thing recently when fussing with a 27” in the front clamshell. “Lower the air pressure!”they cried.
The OD had virtually zero difference.
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John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
I performed the same kind of test about 20 years ago only more accurately.
There was a difference in the rolling circumference but it was very small.
If you look closely that video shows a small difference as well.
Mark |
I measured the difference in circumference with pressure 20+ years ago. Since the spare tire on an old FJ40 sits on a swing carrier in the back of the rig and is very accessible, I choice it to experiment with. The tire would have been a P235/75r15. IIRC the difference in the circumference going from 0 psi to 40 psi was minor, like 3/16 of an inch. |
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brickster
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: CO, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: 14" Tire Options |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| brickster wrote: |
| Is anyone running the AltiMAX RT45 205/70R14 in Load Index 98? 8.2" wide, so would these rub without spacers? |
205/70R14 was a stock size. |
Thanks. I was aware, but sometimes dimensions can vary a bit and I wasn't sure if this tire was on the wider side of the spectrum. I have steel wheels. Are you saying there's a difference in offset between stock steels and aluminums?
I am tempted to try these simply because my Vantras are not useful for loose surfaces (snow, dirt, sand and mud). I will say that they're very good for highway and easy dirt roads, quiet and stable.
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