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Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics)
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T3TRIS
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Location: Portland, OR
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Dang I wish I had read through this entire thread before getting my hands all bloodied! Once I saw the first post saying "you can remove the clutch pedal without taking the dash out," I found the first instructions and ran with it. If it serves anyone tackling this, make sure you browse through this thread to find the info that people have gathered, don't use JUST the first instructions you find.

Anyhow, there was some play in our pedal (feels like about 1/2" to 3/4" at the pad) and a mechanic told us that it could contribute to some grinding in our newly rebuilt syncro transaxle (which has happened a couple times, especially in second gear). He mentioned that our clutch might not disengage fully, creating potential issues.

I got the pedal out and can still count to 10 (the sheet metal in there is not always forgiving when your prybar/screwdriver slips and your thumb drags along the rough edges... gloves darn it!). The hole doesn't seem that bad actually, neither does the pin though the hole is definitely slightly oval and the pin is also a wee bit grooved. I have replacement parts on order from Van Cafe. I bought the bushing solution.

I wonder if I even need to weld the hole shut, or if I could just drill the whole bigger to fit the bushing, any suggestion?

I'm pretty sure that if I just drill this bigger for the bushing, the hole will be centered in the oval shape and not the original location. Given the geometry, I imagine it means that the clutch pedal pad might sit about 1/2" higher than stock, meaning I could have a 1/2" more of travel. Our clutch pedal has always stopped on the van's floor, I wouldn't want to be able to push the clutch in so far that I slowly damage the master cylinder.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


One thing I did notice, is that the piece that pushes into the clutch master cylinder was bent. I have no clue how that happened (I certainly didn't force anything to the point that the pin would bend). I'll have to straighten that.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


On the plus part, I finally found why our horn hasn't been working. It had nothing to do with the horn itself nor the contact ring after all. It looks like the ground wire terminal at the bottom of the steering column had just disintegrated and was flopping around. Silver-lining to contorting yourself and having your face smashed into the pedals I guess!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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T3TRIS

1987 Syncro GL converted to poptop
- 1994 Subaru EJ22
- Transaxle rebuild
- 215/75-R15
- Mexico paint job
- Front end rebuild

Fun off-roading
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

2nd gear grinding is probably not the clutch. A clutch problem would be more noticeable trying to shift into first or reverse from a dead stop. Clutch pedal in a half hour sounds very ambitious. Maybe after the 10th one. For that rod to bend, something had to have been hung most likely at the clutch end where the hydraulics dead headed and something had to give. Could have happened many moons ago.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

sodo wrote:
My 1990 was greased from the factory and had no wear at all in that clevis/pin joint.
It was like new, at 199k miles, the grease lasted 30 years
I suspect the problem was..... that for some years, they were assembled DRY by VW.
You WILL be greasing it this time, thus the wear will stop where it is.
Set your calendar to re-grease it in year 2050.


You did not show a pic of the pin, was it worn?

You don't have to do anything to that clutch pedal hole, it's perfect.
Bend that rod back to straight, grease the clevis and re-assemble.
Should be good for another 30 years....
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EJ25, Peloquin diff, locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.
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T3TRIS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
You did not show a pic of the pin, was it worn?

You don't have to do anything to that clutch pedal hole, it's perfect.
Bend that rod back to straight, grease the clevis and re-assemble.
Should be good for another 30 years....


The pin is slightly worn. I measured it at about 7.6mm in diameter. The hole is 8.6mm on the longest side so there's about 1mm of play. It's not nearly as bad as the other photos shared here, but might as well fix it right while it's out.

I'll definitely grease everything per your recommendations!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


MarkWard wrote:
2nd gear grinding is probably not the clutch. A clutch problem would be more noticeable trying to shift into first or reverse from a dead stop. Clutch pedal in a half hour sounds very ambitious. Maybe after the 10th one. For that rod to bend, something had to have been hung most likely at the clutch end where the hydraulics dead headed and something had to give. Could have happened many moons ago.


Thanks for the input. I'm sure it'll take me much longer to get that thing back in!
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Guillaume and Jennifer

T3TRIS

1987 Syncro GL converted to poptop
- 1994 Subaru EJ22
- Transaxle rebuild
- 215/75-R15
- Mexico paint job
- Front end rebuild

Fun off-roading
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks for the input. I'm sure it'll take me much longer to get that thing back in!


Cut that un-used tab off the other side and it will be easier to reassemble.
I wonder what that tab is for?
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EJ25, Peloquin diff, locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.
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T3TRIS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
Cut that un-used tab off the other side and it will be easier to reassemble.
I wonder what that tab is for?


Are you talking about this tab? Opposite of where the pin slides?

I guess it definitely isn't connected to anything, maybe that pedal just fits in different vehicles.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Guillaume and Jennifer

T3TRIS

1987 Syncro GL converted to poptop
- 1994 Subaru EJ22
- Transaxle rebuild
- 215/75-R15
- Mexico paint job
- Front end rebuild

Fun off-roading
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I see you have an adapter plate, so some of this pic doesn't apply to your van
But the pic shows cutting off that un-used appendage that makes it much more difficult to reassemble.

This pic is from a thread about removing the pedal to modify the leverage ratio to match a Golf slave cylinder that's used in the Smallcar bellhousing.
Smallcar bellhousing clutch options

So you will be ready for "van season 2020"?
I'm working hard too.
I won't get any of the aesthetics done, but I've been under the van for a week now. Wink
Tomorrow it comes down off the ramps and I get up on the roof for #vanlife poses (working on 'solar' next).
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EJ25, Peloquin diff, locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.
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T3TRIS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
I see you have an adapter plate, so some of this pic doesn't apply to your van
But the pic shows cutting off that un-used appendage that makes it much more difficult to reassemble.

So you will be ready for "van season 2020"?
I'm working hard too.
I won't get any of the aesthetics done, but I've been under the van for a week now. Wink
Tomorrow it comes down off the ramps and I get up on the roof for #vanlife poses (working on 'solar' next).


I'm not sure which adapter plate you're talking about. That photo showing the tab is just a stock GoWesty clutch pedal photo.

Yeah, whenever that 2020 season stars! We've finally been able to use our van and actually experience what the (semi) 4WD feels like. No problem driving in relatively soft sand for instance, fun!! Feels like we've tackled the the very main issues, hopefully everything left will be somewhat easier. Solar is far down the line for us! Good to hear you're making progress too.
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Guillaume and Jennifer

T3TRIS

1987 Syncro GL converted to poptop
- 1994 Subaru EJ22
- Transaxle rebuild
- 215/75-R15
- Mexico paint job
- Front end rebuild

Fun off-roading
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Ronzo_volvo_guy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Forum;

I realize this is an older thread, but I read the entire thing with interest and couldn't resist making a couple of comments:

1. Periodic service might not call for it, but if that pivot wears after many miles of service, it clearly would benefit from a dab of grease or drop of oil for lubrication. Putting a bronze bushing in there to massively increase the bearing area is a sweet upgrade, but please don't forget to lube that also...I know bronze is self-lubricating, and "Oilite" bushings are even impregnated, and said not to need oiling, but a drop of lube in this heavily loaded bearing spot will never hurt! As a newby here, now that I know about it, you can bet I'll be lubing ours!

2. Regarding the unused pivot on the other side of the Pedal pivot...if the Westy configuration is to PUSH a rod into the Clutch Slave Cyl, I must ask...were there any configurations of this chassis or even other VW/Audi platforms, where that pedal was fitted, but a clutch cable was used, because on the other side of the pedal pivot, it would obviously be a PULL action...I know from vintage Volvos, they went from hydraulically actuated clutches, to cable actuated in '67, so the pedal config also had to change.

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Sodo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

I bet you’re right about cable operation.
Dang, now I feel like I callously obscurred a relic of my van’s classic roots.Wink

Quote:
Putting a bronze bushing in there to massively increase the bearing area is a sweet upgrade, but please don't forget to lube that also...I know bronze is self-lubricating, and "Oilite" bushings are even impregnated, and said not to need oiling, but a drop of lube


It seems that the factory let some vans go out “dry”.
If it was greased at the factory, the pins last 30 years with no wear.

Putting in a bronze bushing is obviously a good method to restore an ovalized hole, but if you lube the danged thing now you’re gonna have to wait 60 years to note zero wear.
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EJ25, Peloquin diff, locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.


Last edited by Sodo on Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

I have wondered about this for a while: Will grease work its way into the pivot or, short of disassembling it to apply grease, is it more effective to use oil?
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

If you can get some help from someone who understands this pic, and has small hands....its more likely.
I tested this finger-packing pivot lube method ”on the bench” with an extracted clutch/brake pedal cluster. Packing the clevis with grease then wiggling it appeared to suck the grease into the clevis joint. I took a video but YouTube hates me so can’t post it easily. Anyway it seems possible to get grease in there without removing the clutch pedal.

============= From other thread: ==========
How to make clutch disengage higher up?


Sodo wrote:
vanis13 wrote:
Eventually I'll check the clevis pin but some posts with 200+K mile vans with perfect pins could mean mine is just fine.


1/4" is nothing, you don't need to do anything.
But to ensure it stops wearing.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you get back in there, maybe remove your master cylnder bolts etc for a little wiggle room and and pack grease into the clevis pivot.
You can just barely get a finger up there.
If you get any grease in there the wear will stop, and you won't have to deal with it for a long time.
Maybe around year 2050. Wink

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EJ25, Peloquin diff, locker, transaxle oil cooler/filtration system
....KTMs, GasGas, and a Stumpjumper
Gear oil is like underwear.
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Ronzo_volvo_guy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Clutch pedal replacement in 1/2 hour! (Pics) Reply with quote

Guys;

If Sodo took that picture, it would seem to me that a can of spray lithium or white grease, equipped with a snoozle should be able to get it there even better than Sodo's fat, greasy finger (with apologies to Sodo about the fat, greasy finger remark!).

...and regarding which is better...oil or grease...dry and under high bearing force is the killer...ANY lube is an improvement! ...notably NOT including WD, which sucks as a lube (unless of course you'd like to have to reapply it in a week!) Apologies for that remark also, but I absolutely stand by it!

Cheers
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