Lifter won't come out

[calo1956]

I have a 1980 Vanagon Westi, 2.0 air cooled motor.I have had lifters go bad (soft not pumping up) in the past and have had no issues pulling the rocker assembly off and sliding the pushrod tub out, then simply using a magnet to pull out the lifter. This time it wont wont come out. Its the #1 not sure if its intake or exhaust, its the second one back from the front. It moves about 1/2 a inch, then i can here it hitting something. I was even able to get a right angle pic behind the retainer clip and really give it a good pull but no luck. Am I missing something? Like I said I have done this before and was a simple 1 hr job, Ive look in with a bore scope, but see nothing. Was I lucky the last time? Does the piston have to be in a certain position? I dont want to pull the motor, head etc for a simple job. Any insight would be appreciated . Charlie
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[DanHoug]

there's a little burr that's formed on the inside of the block casting you have to get beyond. either get a rilly strong neodymium magnet or use a lifter puller that grabs the lifter and has a small slide hammer on it.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[MarkWard]

I have a vague memory of a member with the exact same issue. I recall the lifter was mushroomed from wear and was hanging up on the case. I would suspect something similar or someone in rebuilding the engine put in a Type 1 lifter that can only be installed from the cam side of the case. I recall the member got it out, but the lifter bore was damage in he process. Hope I am wrong.
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[DanHoug]

[MarkWard]

The pictures appear to show the pushrod tubes in place. You need to pop those out before the lifters will come out. I’m 90% sure.
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[calo1956]

Thank Dan and Mark, all good theories but I have pulled them out in the past, so i dont think that have to be pulled from the inside. The mushrooming theory could have merit though. And Mark the pushrod you see is not the one im trying to get the lifter out of. I just left it there. I just hope Im not screwed with this one. Thanks again.
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[borninabus]

why are you trying to remove it?
replacing it? bleeding it?
how many miles on the engine?

they can for sure wear a ridge inside lifter bore and be difficult to remove.
try probing around in there and see if you can feel it.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[MarkWard]

You may be right, but I would never go that far into a 2.0 without resealing the pushrod tubes. They are stamped sheetmetal and one could have a distorted end. But that’s me. We were resealing pushrod tubes under warranty when they were new. Viton O rings seemed to improve the seal. But by all means don’t let me get in your way. Good luck.
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[calo1956]

Hey Born in a bus, the lifter went soft, motor was ticking so i pulled the valve cover and three of the four rockers were solid, this one I could easily depress the rocker arm with one finger. I have around 28,000 miles on a rebuild, and had to do one last summer, slipped right out. I remember having to do it on the original motor back in the 80's.
Mark There is no sealant on my pushrod tubes, and they dont leak. I pop them out, and pop them right back in. I have change the O rings but last time was sent the wrong outer one and it was fine using the old one.
Ill give it another go tomorrow and see if i can get it out. Thanks to you all for your help..
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[borninabus]

[calo1956]

Nope, its a daily driver, I do know about lifter bleed down and it occurs if it sits awhile but goes away quiet quickly, this isnt going away.
_________________
Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[markswagen]

firstly that's an intake valve, middle two are always intake, outer two exhaust.
all VW flat 4 engines, be they air-cooled bug, WBX or type IV, late bay, early vanagon.
l use this type of tool to pull out lifters, admittedly mine does not have the slide hammer part, it would make it likely useless.
https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W84004-Hydraulic-Remover/dp/B000N324DU?th=1
does the lifter move outwards at all ?
it moves the travel of the cam lobe, if you were to rotate the engine to that #1 inlet valve would be closed, ie at the bottom of it's travel, can you move it to the top of it's travel easily, can you see if you can rotate that lifter, can you get a sharpe in there and mark it, and then see if you can rotate it, it might at least tell you if it's gotten burred over, if you are unable to rotate it, it would suggest that perhaps it is burred and you have bigger problems.
in which case, l might put it back together and run it, or find another block and start rebuilding another, so your commuter vehicle is now down for an extended period of time while you are looking for parts, or trying to get machine work done.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[calo1956]

I ordered the tool, will give it a try, if that doesnt work im putting it back together. Im not a engine builder by any means, thanks for your info, ill see how it goes and post results
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[MarkWard]

Tubes don’t get sealant. The O rings seal. Not sure where you got the idea I said sealant. As you stated, they pop right out and in with fresh O rings. I’m just at a loss as to why you’d be trying to work down a tiny hole to remove the lifters when basically they are right there with the tubes out of the way and you could clearly see what is going on. But you are there and I am not. Good luck.
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[markswagen]

the pushrod tube has been removed, that hole is not going to get any bigger.
you can see the side of the rusty exhaust

[DanHoug]

be careful using the lifter extractor. if the end of the lifter is buggered up it'll score the wall of the lifter bore. this needs to seal some oil pressure for the lifter to work. if it doesn't come out with gentle persuasion, try rotating the lifter to another position but i'd avoid just whanging it out on chance of scoring the boring.
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[calo1956]

Thanks Mark now I know how to tell intake from exhaust . Lifter puller coming sometime today, doubt thats gonna do it, Ill try turing and looking with the bore scope, but I dont have a good feeling about this.
What makes a lifter loose its ability to pump up , it seems like a simple spring and plunger set up.
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[calo1956]

Thanks Doug, I hear you on that, i think im screwed...
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Enjoy the ride....
72 bug
80 westfalia

[DanHoug]

[MarkWard]