Has anyone not liked the BMW booster upgrade?

[mitch5]

Upgrades are always better right? Since I already had the bmw parts, I decided to try the larger master while I had the dash out to rebuild my heater box.

I have g60 calipers up front and the gowesty disc kit in the rear. Previously I had a stock master and booster and the brakes felt great but could require a bit of force to really get the van to stop. Never had an issue with a soft pedal

After installing the booster and a new fte master the brakes are way softer than I would like. I found some other threads about this after discovering the pedal feel. The pedal is stiff when the booster is disconnected so I would say the brakes are bled.

Has anyone else switched back to the stock booster after using the bmw one? I also don’t like how the increased booster thickness jams my reservoir up against the cluster.

[4Gears4Tires]

Have you tried letting it gravity bleed for awhile? I've driven a lot of e30s, and soft is not how I would describe the booster. Put the van up on jacks, remove all wheels, open all brake calipers, open the reservoir, insert funnel, open beer, sip, watch reservoir, add fluid, sip, watch reservoir, add fluid, sip, repeat until beer is done, tighten all brake calipers, check pedal feel.
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition

[Wellington]

I have installed just the booster with the stock Vanagon master and am impressed with the improvement.

I an unaware of using the BMW master cylinder.

[mitch5]

I have not tried a gravity bleed, but did a power bleed followed by a pump the pedal bleed to verify.

I will add that I did not bench bleed the master before install and I think that was a mistake. Normal cars have a horizontal master and the vanagon does not which might be causing air to be trapped in the master

I only installed a bmw booster although I think one member in here has done both.

[MarkWard]

I’ve not been impressed with the vans that I’ve worked on with the bmw booster. Only a few. My impression is the soft pedal is the additional assist you’d expect from a larger booster.

I’ve upgraded two of these vans with the BMW Master Cylinder. The larger diameter should increase pedal effort. But all in all the stock booster and master work fine for me.

A larger booster alone is not going to make the brake hydraulics stronger. It can only reduce pedal effort. Also make sure the master is returning fully. There is a member selling new adapted stock size boosters in the classifieds. That would be my choice.
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[mitch5]

[trihartsfield]

I initially was going to upgrade with a bigger booster there ended up being problems. I just sent my original booster off and got it refurbed, through NAPA, and will eventually use it. (Van is a long way from being usable)
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1971 Transporter-SOLD
1982 Westy Will grow up into a TDI

[MarkWard]

As crazy as this sounds, I would drive the van. While the pedal has a different feel, it may stop fine in use and you will adapt to the new pedal feel assuming properly bled.
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

here's the problem with micky mouse bullshit and why I won't put my money on a "kit" because every one I have dealt with to date has sucked.

the MC has to have a smaller bore in order for the calipers to work properly. Miscalculation of this results in a shitty pedal

there is a LOT that goes into properly sizing this stuff...down to the brake line size and length. It's beyond my paygrade and have had good luck with stoptech and wilwood kits.... which they don't make for vanagons
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[Gnarlodious]

My only complaint is that the entry of the speedometer cable into the back of the speedometer is put under a severe strain by the larger diameter booster. I already had a Brazilian made Gamo cable that was quite fat and stiff so the plastic retainer broke and then eventually the socket fell out and eventually the cable broke and began flinging gooey black grease all under the cluster cover.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[ZsZ]

I had stock brakes and BMW booster. I went back to stock booster, as the pedal feel was too light and I had to keep my leg "up in the air" doing light brakings.
I think you need to match the pedal spring to the booster.
And I hated the bouncing speedo - it kinked the cable so stilk jumps a bit.
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Zoltan
1.9 MTdi 2wd Multivan (ex Caravelle)
Van since 2006, engine since 2008

[markswagen]

l've fitted more of those than l can remember, no one l have fitted them for, has every mentioned anything but happiness, all 4 of our own fleet, have them, l personally wouldn't ever go back to s stock booster.
my customers who are not sure {those that have stick shift vans} l let them drive burni around the block, that's usually all the thought needed.



as for the bouncing needle, move the speedo cable to a different grommet, a bit of warmth from a hair dryer will soften a rubber grommet enough so you should be able to push the end of the cable through it, if there's not an unused hole.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[MarkWard]

[thatbaldwinlife]

We have the full Burley front and rear kits and the BMW booster. Brakes are amazing, so much better than stock. Pedal feels great, just soft enough at the start but builds pressure nicely for good feel and feedback to keep from locking up if not needed.
We had to go with the GW GPS speedo to fix the speedo cable kink with the BMW booster. Good upgrade.

nate
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1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel

[mathieux46]

Similar to thatbaldwinlife, I have a Smallcar front kit ( Gilrling 60 ) and Burley disk in the back and a BMW booster.

The brakes are simply amazing, the feel is much better than with the stock booster.

Planning the same on my other ( 2 ) vans.

Highly recommanded, no drawback other than on the wallet.

[mitch5]

I have an ej22 frankenengine setup. The brakes i have only tested so far from moving the van a few feet forward and backward. I plan to atleast give it a shot on the street and see if i adjust to the feel.

I am starting to believe i may have a faulty out of the box clutch master which is holding me up from street driving. i can barely get the clutch to disengage. The last thing to check is for proper clearance and the arm is actually returning all the way. I have powerbled, bench bled and gravity bled but seemingly still have air

My clutch was previously fine before tearing into the system, i could see a small weep past the master so i decided to replace.

[Christopher Schimke]

You know, there's one recurring theme in all of this, be it for or against, and that is people using the word "feel" to describe their braking system. Feel is such a subjective word. What feels good to me might feel like garbage to another.

So, what does "feel" mean? How do you define "feels better"? Better than what? And what are you basing your feelings on?

Are you basing it on the fact that your last brake setup had a hard pedal and took more leg effort to make the van stop and your new brake system has a much softer pedal? And did you come to this conclusion because you are comparing it to the way your modern Honda brakes feel? Or, are you saying that your new brake kit and booster make the pedal feel too soft, dead, and/or hard to modulate?

What if I prefer a pedal feel that is a bit harder than a modern car, but you prefer a softer pedal feel, like that Honda? Which one is right? Does one produce shorter stopping distances compared to the other? Maybe, but not necessarily. Obviously, the answer is that...it depends.

It depends on the exact combination of brake setup, wheel/tire size, wheel/tire weight, the weight of the van, how the van is loaded, what booster is used, what pads the calipers (or drums) have, etc. There are many variables.

And you can have a brake setup that "feels" great to your foot and/or brain but does not create the shortest stopping distance. Conversely, you can have brakes that feel terrible but stop the vehicle incredibly well. My new full size Bronco is a perfect example of this. The pedal is super soft and feels over-boosted. There's very little "feel" to the pedal. Yet, that system does a great job of stopping that heavy beast.

Brakes are really complicated. Many different variables come into play when it comes to constructing a really good braking system. While I realize that not everyone has enough experience or interest to be able to describe their brakes any other way than to say they "feel" good or bad, it's really useless to use how they feel as the end all be all descriptor.

And don't get me wrong. I'm definitely not saying that when someone describes their new brake system as, "feels better" that somehow the achievable stopping distance isn't better than it was before, but without some empirical evidence, you are simply going by the "feel" of the brakes. Does that mean you actually have a better braking system? Maybe, but going by feeling alone is not necessarily proof of that.
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

[mitch5]

You are entirely correct that brake “feel” is very subjective. Hard to put an actual number on brake feel but it seems people prefer the bmw booster on a scale of 10:1. That’s what convinced me in the first place.

I prefer a linearly progressive pedal, newer non performance vehicles seem to be the opposite of this where the bite of the brakes seemingly comes from nowhere after the pedal doing nothing for a bit.

Right now the feel is that the initial 1/3 of travel does nothing and doesn’t have the linear feel I had before.

[Christopher Schimke]