Spring Plate Tool on a Type 3

[sjbartnik]

So it looks like in the very near future I'm in for rear spring plate bushings.

Does anyone have any tips on how (or whether) the common spring plate compressor tool sold by cip1 etc can be used on a Type 3? The sites all claim it works for Type 3 but...

The way this tool is made, it is supposed to fit over the body mount bolt on a Beetle to hold the upper end of the tool in place. It cannot go there on a Type 3 as that is the upper subframe mounting point and there's no access to the top side of the bolt from the wheel well.

Has anyone successfully used one of these on a Type 3 or am I going to have to get creative with heavy duty ratchet straps?

Both sides look like this and I'm starting to get nasty graunching and clunking noises over bumpy surfaces.

Also, is there a removable cap on the end of that spring plate tube? The parts book seems to show that there is but I can't tell by looking at it.

Finally I like the idea of using longer bolts to pull the cover on with new bushings. I know they are M10 but does anyone know the thread pitch? The parts book doesn't say.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Erik G]

I've lowered / raised more vw's than I can count. I've never used that tool.

this is the closest video I can find, I use a floor jack on the torsion bar and prybars, hammers


Link


I've never used longer bolts to get it back together but it can be a pain for sure. I start with the bottom bolts and use a metal punch to center the top holes before putting the bolt in.

Watch the video, get familiar with what you're looking at. Seeing other stuff you're done, this is no biggie. There's a similar JBugs video but kinda sketch just pounding the spring plate.

[squaretobehip]

[sjbartnik]

My problem with the “just jack it up” advice is that every time I’ve ever tried to just jack up the spring plate, it just raises the whole car and not the spring plate. So my concern is I won’t be able jack it up past the stop without lifting the whole car. Gonna do some samba and YouTube research on this today.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Zwitterkafer]

I did use that tool but it doesn't count because the subframe was removed from the car! Even then, it was not long enough to unload the spring plate all the way. So, in parallel, I linked the shock mount and a spring plate bolt hole with some bracketry and a massive long bolt (10+ inches?). By turning a nut on the long bolt the spring plate could be unloaded all the way, in a slow controlled manner. Having the parallel arrangement (as a safety) also made less worrisome the crowbar-prying out of the spring plate. There is considerable force involved here, so slow methodical work can help prevent accidents.
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"Criticism comes easier than Craftsmanship"
- Zeuxius, 400 BC

[sjbartnik]

Ok after reviewing a lot of threads and some videos I’m feeling much more confident about getting this job done. I think I will get a piece of chain to loop under the jack just to help with raising the spring plate.

This is one of those jobs I’ve never had to tackle before but now having seen some visuals I’m feeling good about it. I’m just mostly relieved that the transmission doesn’t have to come out to do it, since it just went back in not long ago.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

[sjbartnik]

And I did note the posts re: the error in the Bentley on the torque spec for the spring plate cover bolts. Should be 25 ft-lbs., not 80 ft-lbs.

(the spring plate to bearing housing bolts get 80 ft-lbs.)
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bryan67]

You can loop a chain around the top shock bolt, and around the front axle of the jack. that will keep the car from lifting off of the ground.
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If you`re going to do something, do it right.

[Erik G]

[sjbartnik]

No worries, I’ll just use the chain method for a little added security to keep the body from lifting. Thanks for your video Erik, it really helped to see what is involved. Probably won’t be able to get to it for a couple weeks but now I feel prepared.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[squaretobehip]

Make sure you report back so we know you didn't break your leg or have the car fall on you.

Kidding but also not. And lastly, as mentioned above...you've done way harder shit.
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1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue

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[sjbartnik]

Will do. And yeah, Big-Serting that failed #3 case saver and doing it straight was much more nerve-wracking than this appears to be.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

Sorry guys one more question with this:

There are conflicting specs for spring plate angle between the two Bentleys.

For regular Squareback ( the 375 kg version, not the HD version) the blue Bentley specs a spring plate angle of 18º 30'

while the brown Bentley specs a spring plate angle for swing-axle Squareback of 21º 30' without noting that there were two different payload versions available.

Now, I note that the brown Bentley spec happens to coincide with the blue Bentley spec for the HD (465 kg) Squareback, so my assumption is that the brown Bentley is in error here in that it is only reporting the spec for the HD Squareback and not for the standard Squareback.

Anyone know for sure? My inclination is to go with the blue Bentley spec for the standard (375 kg) Squareback without the auxiliary spring, which is what I have.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

I'd probably go with the Blue Bentley numbers. Those came from the factory service manuals that were reprinted by Bentley.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[sjbartnik]

I tackled the right side yesterday. What a job! Took a lot of time but learned some tricks that should make the other side go faster.

When I got the spring plate tension released, it was awesome to find that the resting angle of the spring plate was exactly at 18º 30' just like the book spec.

What really turned into a time suck was trying to get the spring plate off the outer end of the torsion bar. The bar came out from the inner stop but stayed in the spring plate. Tried lots of wiggling and other methods but also so as not to scratch the paint on the torsion bar. Really really did not want to have to take the fender off.

Finally resorted to heat on the outer part of the spring plate and that got it loose. Appeared to be just gummy old grease hanging it up.

I don't think that these bars have ever been out, or if they had it was a long time ago. The old bushings were VW German with "oben" on the top just like in the Bentley. The new ones are Vibrasil with "acima" on the top.

Getting it back together was a also a challenge and would have been impossible without the trick of using longer bolts to draw the cover down and compress the new bushings which appear to be noticeably thicker than the old ones. Again learned some tricks here which should make the other side go faster.

The chain wrapped around the top shock bolt and under the jack worked great for jacking up the spring plate to get it over the stop.

Hope to finish up today.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

Yeah, the first one is always the hardest and most nerve wracking. The 2nd one will be easier as you've learned a few things from doing the other side, plus you might still have all the tools still out, so you're not searching for what you need. Congrats on getting one side done, hopefully the 2nd one goes easier now that you're experienced.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[sjbartnik]

Did the left side today and it flew by. I was done before noon.

The left side was the side I had been hearing noises from so I expected it to be worse than the right. It's funny, until I had this apart I don't think I really understood how the bushings wear. I thought they broke down on top and eventually kinda collapsed but when you pull them out that's not really what you see.

Turns out the wear happens on the vertical faces that abut the spring plate. Eventually the rubber gets ground down and the bushings become thinner - then this, I think, allows the spring plate to twist beneath the cover and enables metal-to-metal contact with the housing and/or the cover. The insides of both my covers had evidence of metal-to-metal contact (bright shiny metal).

Additionally, the left side spring plate had evidence of metal-to-metal contact. Some nice gouging - these bushings may have been bad for a while.

I was aided today by the fact that on the left side, the spring plate came off the torsion bar and the bar stayed seated in the subframe. I did not take it out and therefore re-setting my spring plate angle was super easy - just putting it back on in the same orientation it came off.

When I put the car back on the ground the ride height was the same as before and level side-to-side so I'll call that a success.

Interestingly this car has never had saggy-butt syndrome. I guess that has more to do with a worn torsion bar that needs to be re-indexed than it does with the spring plate bushings.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Erik G]

see - told ya it would be easy

good job
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