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Changing to disc brakes on front
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kubelmann
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote: The K-mann 5 x 130 4 wheel disk brake system that uses the old school Thing front caliper adapters, Ghia front disc brake parts.
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locky
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where you are looking, but the AC industries kit is only $224.00, not $800. This is the bare bones kit without bearings.
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/dis...x4-p-13596
Here it is.
Go for it! U won't regret it
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mikeyj007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed the AC Industries kit on mine. I believe it cost around $500 when I did it and included the master cylinder. The only thing it didn't have that I needed to purchase was the two brake light sensors that go on the master cylinder. It's recommended to not use the bearings that come with the kit and buy a better quality set. I didn't find it too difficult to install. The difference was night and day in my case and you don't need to adjust or worry about the discs.

I've always heard that the front brakes provide 85% of the stopping power and the rear 15%.

I think the kit I used was similar to this one: http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/dis...05-p-13593
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63ziggy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mikeyj007

couple quick questions if you don't mind

did you change bearings? if so, which ones did you purchase?

do you know if current bearings will interchanges with their disk kit? my drum bearings only have about 1500 miles on them.

thanks in advance
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bearings are the same.
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mikeyj007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the bearings that came with the kit. I would think it would be more trouble to remove your old races and the reinstall them it would be worth. If I'm not mistaken you want to keep the bearings matched up to the same races.
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livy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man that's a lot of great information: Now I can see my car with a set of SoCal front brakes bought for $399.99. Now lets talk about wheel and tires overall size (so as not to mess up the speedo) and also offset of the wheels. I hope someone here has that information as it would take me a year to figure it out on my own. Just tell me what wheels and tires I need to buy. Thank you.
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Pierre G
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noone can tell you what wheels and tires you need to buy.

We all can recommend to buy this disc brake kit if you want to retain stock 5x205 bolt pattern (which I prefer too):
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/dis...05-p-13593

But for the wheels, there's so many possible combos. I personnaly love Centerline wheels, but they were too pricey at the time and I went with 5 spoke steel chrome wheels (off road style). But you could go for Empi 5 spoke, BRM, 356 style chromies, Rader, Sprint star,... look here :

http://www2.cip1.com/searchresults.asp?cat=1932

Choice is huge. Your taste will determine. Same for tires. They're very important in the look of a Thing/181.

My advice is to look at the tire/wheel sticky (top of this forum) : lots of info and pics there (including my wheels/tires choice + many others).

Depends a lot on the offset, but I would recommend 15x5 up front and 15x6 rear with stock fenders, and 185R15 front tires and 195 or 205 rear, but others have fitted wider tires. It really depends on the offset.

Captain Spalding is the master in offset/wheel size/tire size calculations.
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mikeyj007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running 205/75R15 Cooper ATRs with the 15"x7" rims on all four corners.

I believe these are the rims I ordered. . Be sure to ask them what lug bolts you need. The stock ones won't work. I know my speedometer isn't dead on since I checked it against my gps. If my memory serves me correctly it's only off by 2-4 mph at 70. So i figure that's acceptable.
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/3801/WHL5L7C/
With these caps.
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/1469/AC601591/

If I did it again I would probably spring for these aluminum rims. The chrome on mine wasn't very tough. The offset on the aluminum BTR's is 2-7/8" as opposed to 3-1/2" on the steel wheels. I don't believe it should be an issue. I know lots of people run the BTR rims. I'm just not 100% as to the exact model.
http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/3812/WHL-BTR7/

It looks like there is a cheaper Empi rim very similar to the BTR's. Most people will tell you that Empi is cheaper for a reason. I have to agree that you get what you pay for so go for the best you can possibly afford. I don't see the offset listed on these and they're not currently in stock.
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/spo...ip-p-16995

Here is my setup.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Fun 181
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Spalding wrote:
Bruce wrote:

What those "mechanics" recommend will KILL you.

Nothing garners credibility like hyperbole. Laughing


LOL! I'm almost used to the over-use of hyperbole from our friend in the Great White North at this point, but I do understand what has been said as far as weight distribution and weight transfer. I am now on a mission to get all the facts on the subject.

livy wrote:
I hope someone here has that information as it would take me a year to figure it out on my own. Just tell me what wheels and tires I need to buy. Thank you.


You know, I'm always willing to help out a fellow Thing owner, but with all due respect, we're not here to do your work for you. In the end, you're the one who needs to determine what will work best for you, and the only way that's going to happen is with research on your end. It will not take a non-mechanic a year to figure out the best wheel/tire combo (or best brake options for that matter) on your own. I should know. There is an entire sticky thread dedicated to the subject of wheels and tires in addition to using the search button. Yes, there is a lot of info to absorb here, but how else are you going to really understand the subject if you don't spend the time to research on your own? More importantly, how are you going to identify any problems that may arise if the info you get isn't what you needed? In the course of 3 or 4 days you should have all the info you need.

Something I just learned - relying on what a couple of "experts" tell you might not be in your best interest. Case-in-point: my advice on where discs should be located. I went with what I was told, had that info disputed here, and know I'm back to finding out what the definitive answer is.

It's been my experience that folks on this forum are far more likely to help someone when they know that person has already put forth a fair amount of effort on their part before they ask for help.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a little primer on offset/backspace:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's a nice online tire size comparator:
http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalculator.asp?action=submit

You can use it to compare different tire sizes. Remember that the stock tire size is 185R14. I'm running 27x8.5R14's on stock wheels, and that's about the largest that will fit without rubbing. That translates to a P-metric size of 215/70R15.
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Semper_Dad
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun 181 wrote:
It's been my experience that folks on this forum are far more likely to help someone when they know that person has already put forth a fair amount of effort on their part before they ask for help.


Ok, where's that damn "LIKE" button

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livy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A small few of you guy's are rough on a fellow. What else can I do to show my allegiance to this car type, and trying to bring a Thing back from the brink of the crusher. I cut my arm to the bone trying to get to that top nut that goes to the starter. I slipped and fell on the oil that leaks out of the engine. I sacrificed my new coat putting out the engine fire and this morning while starting this car the throttle cable broke, and will have to be fixed. Since I have purchased this car I have fixed, replaced, modified and touched most every part on this car in some way. And I leaned very heavily on this groups knowledge of this type of car. When I was asking about tire size and offset. I was only trying to take advantage of all of your vast experience not only to point me in the right direction, but also to save my money from buying the wrong item. Just like I will do when others ask questions that I will learn or have learned. If that irritates you then please just hit the delete button and leave me to my search for knowledge. To the rest of you who have been so kind as to help a fellow Thing lover in his quest for excellence, I THINK YOU.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was the "just tell me what wheels and tires I need to buy" that rubbed a couple of the guys the wrong way. It carries with it the implication that you're not interested in the details. The other aspect of it is that once you deviate from stock wheels, personal preference and compromise come into play. On the personal preference side, you may want painted wheels or aluminum or chrome. You may want a street wheel or a more off-road wheel. Most folks put a lot of thought into the choice of their wheels, and you are willing to abdicate that choice to others. Let's just put that all aside and get on with it.

Lot's of folks ask about backspace/offset. It gets asked so often in fact that rather than retype a complicated answer every time, I just put together a little page on it, which I posted.

If you look at that, you'll see in a box at the bottom that a stock Thing wheel is described. It is 5 inches wide and has a backspace of 4 3/8" or an offset of 32.5mm. Sadly for those of us who want to replace our wheels with something different, that exact backspace is somewhat rare, but we can get close.

Did you go to the link that PierreG provided? There are a lot of nice wheels shown there. Have a look at this one. It's the closest you're going to find to the right size. If you don't like that one, look at the size and backspace in the description, and find another on the list that Pierre provided that is the same size.

Okay. On to tires. Go over to TireRack.com. After the page loads, on the left, under "Popular Links" click on "Tires by Size". In the slide-down window, enter 195 70 15 and then click Proceed. Choose what you want from the results.
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livy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Captain. I believe I am going with either the Chrome or Aluminum wheels. Your info on the off set is exactly what was needed. Truly in my garage I must have 8 different sets of wheel that I have purchased at one time or the other on various cars I have had. And the reason I could not use them was the off set was incorrect. On some of the Porsche 1/2" off set in the wrong direction and you have a set of wheels you can not use.
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kubelmann
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run early 85 and older) Porsche 924/944 cookie cutters on Things all the time. These 5x130 15" wheels work perfectly with our Thing disc brake conversion set-up. 14 mm x 1.5 mm studs on a ghia rotor. This is a natural for 944 rear disk that bolt right up with no modification at all required.
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livy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Captain I missed most of your questions. Yes I did look at the page on the various wheels. But here is my issue and I really hate to admit it, but all these ads list wheels for a type 1, bus or type 3 and to tell you the truth I have not figured out what type a Thing is?. Some places list type 1 and thing, and some places list type 3 and thing. I am still trying to work all this out. and my throttle cable broke and I'm reading up on how to fix that. But I still love this car. I bought a fiberglass fender and I have the fender off and cutting the other one out. All of this is just my excuse for asking so many questions.
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uberautowerks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Thing is a type 1.
Period

Now some of the parts also fit type 3's or type 2's or whatever but the Thing is a type 1.

Which means that a lot of the parts are type 1.
Also means you have an "Upright" or type 1 engine.
That's also why your VIN starts with a 1.

Just FYI...

Type 1 = Beetle, Ghia, Thing
Type 2 = Bus
Type 3 = Squareback, Fastback, Notchback
Type 4 = 411 & 412

Sometimes the Busses can get a bit confusing...
Early, split window busses, sometimes are referred to as T1.
Late busses, '72 up, were fitted with type 4 engines as well as type 1 engines.

Anyway...
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uberautowerks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as replacing the throttle cable...

Assuming it's broken

Unbolt the old one from the barrel nut on the carb.
Pull SOME of it's remains out from the engine side.
Unhook the "Z" bend on the front of the cable from the arm behind the accelerator pedal.
Grab the front end of the cable and pull the rest of the cable out of it's guide tube next to the accelerator pedal.

Install the new cable from inside the car.

If the flexible guide tube is installed correctly over the trans and between the frame and the rear of the engine...

The new cable will appear through the engine tin behind the carb.
Thread the end into the barrel nut, give the cable a good tug and snug up the barrel nut.

WITH THE ENGINE OFF...

Have a helper fully depress the pedal while you check that the carb is NOT quite all the way open.
The throttle arm should have a bit of movement left.
If not adjust as needed

Skip the last step and you'll be replacing the cable again soon.
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--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)
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uberautowerks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lastly...
I MUST caution you with this...

Replacing a throttle cable/ starter etc on a VW it NOT difficult.
Nor is a faulty job going to necessarily risk your or someones else life out there on the road.

Brakes on the other hand ARE difficult to do correctly.
They require at least training and or some inherent knowledge of all things mechanical.

OR you will hurt somebody.
Period.

So...
With all possible kindness...
I say this
Having read ALL of your Samba posts.
I beg you to please have a professional install whatever brake parts you end up with.

Eric
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--- The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair.
- Douglas Adams -
---
'74 Thing (White)
'71 Single cab (White too)
'70 Weekender (White three)
'05 Evolution VIII (White also!!!)
'68 F-250 (White over black)
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