Author |
Message |
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
??????? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
twinfin Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2006 Posts: 62 Location: Santa Cruz, California
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Thanks for doing the leg work! I will more than likely be giving them a call as well. I think the alternator core might be able to be shipped in a usps medium flat rate box for $14 ..maybe??
Post your findings if you proceed with possible stator upgrades that will work in the oem AL75X Alternator case.
As a side note O'reilly Auto Parts sells a rebuilt 70 watt (AL108X) alternator for $70 + $20 Core. Cant find that model any cheaper! It says it comes with pulley ...but i think might be a typo?? The 55watt AL75X is way over priced at $219 + core.
Here is the url:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Alternato...olkswagen] _________________ ________________________________
"It's knowledge to learn from your mistakes. But it's wisdom to learn from others!"
------------------------------------------
“He that goeth to bedde wyth Dogges, aryseth with fleas.”
"The Blue Submarine"
1977 Campmobile, Type 4 2.0 liter Federal, Non-Catalyst, Fuel Injected with Valvetrain from the type4store, 411 Heat Exchanger Preheaters, S&S Header, Supertrapp Silencer. ...and a lot of help from Clatter and TCash and friends! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
I'm a little concerned in the fact that it doesn't even look like the 55. And I think I read somewhere if you switch it's just not the alternator. 75 has a fan on the front, the 55 is cooled by the engine fan, Not sure how much revamping I want to do. I think that I called them and they were not available....... Maybe that's here? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
twinfin Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2006 Posts: 62 Location: Santa Cruz, California
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Need combo one peice fan/pulley, larger round rear altinator boot and wiring harness all for the larger AL108X 70 Watt altinator. The front altinator tin plate will work from the later bay windows. The fan pulley is hard to find. Some porsche sites might have it. Maybe AutoAtlanta. Harness etc from Germanautosupply. Little bit of work.
I prefer to have a Retro fitted High Output AL75X one in mine like you do and use heavier 6 Guage wire in the alternator harness. _________________ ________________________________
"It's knowledge to learn from your mistakes. But it's wisdom to learn from others!"
------------------------------------------
“He that goeth to bedde wyth Dogges, aryseth with fleas.”
"The Blue Submarine"
1977 Campmobile, Type 4 2.0 liter Federal, Non-Catalyst, Fuel Injected with Valvetrain from the type4store, 411 Heat Exchanger Preheaters, S&S Header, Supertrapp Silencer. ...and a lot of help from Clatter and TCash and friends! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Still doing research. Wanna send out my alternator to him and see what he can do.. Like to keep stock fit and just boost performance... I'm only doing this for future addition of possibly an electric AC compressor... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
so you need to do 2 of them. That way if it fails two years from now, you can swap it with a known good one and send the defective unit to be repaired. If you just put in an upgraded one you'll go on a waiting list again if it fails, or you'll be back to a 55 again. At least with a 70amp you can get another one from your FLAPS - unless they go NLA. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1729 Location: Portland
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
I have been running the high output AL75X from a ebay vendor for a couple of years. It solved a few subtle starting and running issues for me. Just remounted it on the new motor and expect to get at least a few more years out of it.
If they need cores, I have at least 3 I am looking to give away. _________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Not sure if they need cores or use that as an excuse to jack prices up? If cores are the case, why don't they have a price with or without cores??? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
69BahamaYellow Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011 Posts: 535 Location: Talbott, TN
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
If you're going to run an electric AC compressor, I'm not sure either the Bosch AL75X or the AL108X alternators for a type 4 motor can be built with enough output. For example, an electric AC compressor for a small car consumes about 3-4 kilowatts at steady state operation. Something big enough to cool a bus will need to be about 5-6 kilowatts. If you do the math, (Required Amps = 1000 x Power (in kW) / DC Volts), so you'd need around 400 amps to run the system continuously, or else you'd need a bunch of batteries to kick in the extra juice. There is a guy on this site (can't remember the name), who's trying to put an electric compressor on a bus, so you may want to ask how he's handling the power requirements. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
I had talked to someone who's done a few bus's with the electric before. Jeff told me"I don't recommend using stock York compressors. I strongly urge people to use a 12 volt A/C compressor . Shim elec air conditioner compressor SHM-AIR'4008. No belts no engine hassle only the draw down on the alternator. I always up grade to a 70 or 75 amp the 55 is a little small. You just need to know your amp draw with everything on ect ect. Jeff" So I'm going off the theory he's done these before. Hope he knows what he's talking about. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
69BahamaYellow Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011 Posts: 535 Location: Talbott, TN
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
the old York recip compressors are hard to find, way too big and heavy for the available space, and better technology is readily available for less $$, so that's the main reason to stay away from them.
I put AC on my bus earlier this year, and I measured that the evaporator and condenser fans, and compressor clutch together pull around 20 amps. the stock 55AMP alternator only just covers the lights, engine, and maybe a radio (under continuous operation), so you need at least a 75 amp alternator to have continuous AC without battery drain (and that's with a belt driven compressor).
I'm not saying electric AC in a bus can't be done, but when somebody says they've done it, you've got to qualify they mean a VW bus with a stock motor, and then what the duty cycle is. In Texas, you need 100% duty cycle, but if you live in cooler climates, where you can get by with a compressor that cycles a lot, then maybe the duty cycle is only 40-50%, which means a lower output alternator could possibly keep up with the drain on the battery. Also, once your bus is cooled down, it takes less compressor capacity to keep it that way, which favors an electric compressor. If you swap in a Subie or some other modern engine, then 250 Amp or even 300 Amp alternators are readily available. My only point here is that with a stock type 4 VW motor, you could have a serious challenge with alternator output to go the electric AC route, and I'd hate to see you spend a lot of money on something that just doesn't work that well. I think all of us here on Samba knows what that's like with cheap Chinese parts, so I'm only trying to help a brother out in that regard..... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Thanks for the insight. I guess since mine has everything for AC with the exception of the compressor, and I'm putting a rebuilt engine in, I wanted to make sure I had a more powerful alternator in case I would put an electric comp in it.
Cycle? Up here in Wisconsin I can't imagine it being used on more than several occasions, and the cost of the compressor might prevent me from doing it. BUT a higher output alternator won't be a detriment, right? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
twinfin Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2006 Posts: 62 Location: Santa Cruz, California
|
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
otiswesty wrote: |
I have been running the high output AL75X from a ebay vendor for a couple of years. It solved a few subtle starting and running issues for me. Just remounted it on the new motor and expect to get at least a few more years out of it.
If they need cores, I have at least 3 I am looking to give away. |
Which ebay vender did you use for the Alternator? _________________ ________________________________
"It's knowledge to learn from your mistakes. But it's wisdom to learn from others!"
------------------------------------------
“He that goeth to bedde wyth Dogges, aryseth with fleas.”
"The Blue Submarine"
1977 Campmobile, Type 4 2.0 liter Federal, Non-Catalyst, Fuel Injected with Valvetrain from the type4store, 411 Heat Exchanger Preheaters, S&S Header, Supertrapp Silencer. ...and a lot of help from Clatter and TCash and friends! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Electric compressor is tempting if you wanted to plug your bus into external power at a campground and run AC. You just need a powerful AC to DC converter.
I suspect the 4000 BTU output will be very marginal cooling a bus going down the road. To put it in perspective, a modern mid size car is around 2 tons capacity or 24,000 BTU. The idea being to cool down rapidly and also keep up with a lot of airflow and greenhouse effect of the all the sun through the glass. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Mine is not a camper, and am using the factory ceiling mounted AC. Can't imagine that it would be any worse than running the electric ones that they use for street rods and such. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
gleason wrote: |
Mine is not a camper, and am using the factory ceiling mounted AC. Can't imagine that it would be any worse than running the electric ones that they use for street rods and such. |
In street rods they are cooling a much smaller space, and even then the electric systems are compromise systems for when installing and mounting a belt driven compressor is too difficult or compromises the aesthetics and originality too much. Easier to hide.
If you can mount an engine driven compressor, which you can (your bus had one at some point), that is both a cheaper option, and far more effective, and won't put any strain on your alternator. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
69BahamaYellow Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011 Posts: 535 Location: Talbott, TN
|
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:20 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
gleason wrote: |
Thanks for the insight. I guess since mine has everything for AC with the exception of the compressor, and I'm putting a rebuilt engine in, I wanted to make sure I had a more powerful alternator in case I would put an electric comp in it.
Cycle? Up here in Wisconsin I can't imagine it being used on more than several occasions, and the cost of the compressor might prevent me from doing it. BUT a higher output alternator won't be a detriment, right? |
Agreed, a higher output alternator is a welcome addition on a bus (AC or not). Sounds like you've got your mind made up on the electric AC compressor, so keep us posted on your progress with that on one of the many AC install threads; it's good to see what the innovators are doing Didn't mean to sound like a hater on your idea, just sharing perspective. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gleason Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2003 Posts: 274 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Like I said, the higher output alternator won't be a bad thing to have, and if I decide to TRY the elec compressor, I hope we have enough to run it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Geirskogul Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2014 Posts: 18 Location: Arizona
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jivermo Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2008 Posts: 56 Location: Miami, FL.
|
Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: Re: 70 amp alternator |
|
|
Has anyone bought one of these Remy or Wilson units, that could comment on the quality? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|