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BUSBOSS
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 2161
Location: Northern California
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 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: Odometer zero |
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Anyone have experience or know how to zero an odometer for purposes of a rebuild?
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All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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Sloride
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2002
Posts: 926
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| anyone have experience or know how to zero an odometer |
yes it can be easily redone, but I've only done it for purposes of replacing the speedo-odometer with another exactly like it to match the exact same mileage when the old speedo-odometer had a broken needle that would not come off for repair. Setting it back to zero isn't the proper thing to do because the frame and body can never be reset back to factory zero miles. Just tell everyone that the engine was replaced with a zero mileage engine at X miles if it is a new (not rebuilt) long block. Or tell folks you rebuilt it at X miles. Write the current date and mileage on a piece of paper and attach it to the receipts for the engine work. Maybe take a photo of the odometer too. If someone explains how to reset it to zero knowing you are going to do that then they are helping you commit a felony. I think that then makes them culpable too. Asking on a forum like this how to commit a felony is not a good idea either.
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babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7107
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| In Florida when selling a vehicle, there is a place on the title transfer where you can state "mileage is unknown" or something there of. I have bought cars with broken or no speedo cable intact. Thus the mileage would be incorrect. So in Fl. rolling the odometer back would not be a crime if you claimed mileage to be unknown. |
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wihr
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 344
Location: PORTLAND, OR
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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It is a matter of "intent".
WW
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WIHR
1970 Campmobile "Van Ordinaire"
2009 Lincoln Town Car "Behemoth"
1969 Lambretta 150 DL "Nina"
1962 Matchless G 12 CS 650cc |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| Sloride wrote: |
| other than a drill which turns the speedometer at 65 miles an hour. Ironically the same as the old aircooled motor. |
get a faster drill 
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
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| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
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BUSBOSS
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 2161
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| anyone have experience or know how to zero an odometer |
yes If someone explains how to reset it to zero knowing you are going to do that then they are helping you commit a felony. I think that then makes them culpable too. Asking on a forum like this how to commit a felony is not a good idea either. |
There is also the possibility that you could get struck by lightning or eaten by a bear while doing this. You have been advised. Proceed at your own peril. 
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All the redemption I can offer, girl, is beneath this dirty hood
1976 Westfalia
1970 Karmann Ghia Convertible (sold - but not forgotten) |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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FYI Eric - it is Federal - like all laws they can enforce it at will. All they need is a buyer who for whatever reason says he/she feels mislead.
Everyone else - there are many small laws that exist that can really FU someone's life. If one of you wants be the idiot who pulls the dragon's tail go for it. I'd rather let him sleep, especially when there is no gain in it for me to waken him.
Besides it is so easy on these old buses I am surprised anyone would even ask about how to do it.
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| babysnakes wrote: |
| In Florida when selling a vehicle, there is a place on the title transfer where you can state "mileage is unknown" or something there of. I have bought cars with broken or no speedo cable intact. Thus the mileage would be incorrect. So in Fl. rolling the odometer back would not be a crime if you claimed mileage to be unknown. |
Here in New Mexico, we have a checkbox on the title form that says "Odometer in excess of mechanical limits" That's the one I pick, since rolling over at 100,000 miles is just that.
I also did set an odometer back to 0 when I rebuilt it -- you have to take apart the Geneva mechanism and all. I did not consider ti a felony since it came from a vehicle long gone, and I was not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.
The thing locked up 13 km later, so make of that what you will. But it's now moot. 
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7107
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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Steve, when someone has a broken speedo (not the swimming type) and they replace it with a good used one, are they supposed to reset the mileage to that of the one being replaced? I am sure there are considerations that are made. What would be the mileage on a T-bucket rod that was built 30-40 years ago that has been through several hands? Yep, title says so,so it must be. ???
Erik. |
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wihr
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 344
Location: PORTLAND, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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Once again, it is a matter of intent. If you change the reading to defraud some one it is a crime. It is not criminal to change the reading for other purposes.
WW
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WIHR
1970 Campmobile "Van Ordinaire"
2009 Lincoln Town Car "Behemoth"
1969 Lambretta 150 DL "Nina"
1962 Matchless G 12 CS 650cc |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22460
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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Dude - I have so many Federal cases pending for all the NOS speedos I put on T3s over the years - it aint funny
I dont think its that big of a deal on a hobby car you keep. Unless paperwork is provided on any old car with odometer oil changes and what not - then we all can safely assume the milage is NOT correct - Due in part to all the reasons we are now pointing out to SGKent 
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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There is a thread on the Type 1 forum about repairing the speedo on account of noise, wear, etc. and it goes into how the little number wheels are removed and replaced. Dunno if you can do that with a Type 2 speedo.
FWIW, California has a seperate form you can file for corrected or exchanged speedometers where the old odometer info is added into the replacement's reading.
I vote for the felony route and have your new owner believe that clapped out upholstery, dangerously loose steering and see-through battery tray really reflect 2,371 original miles.  |
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Togz
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2015
Posts: 69
Location: Lake County, MN
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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So, may I hijack this thread? Why is it that buses and most vehicles of that era only have 5 digit odomiters? Was it just so common place that cara were essentially useless after 100k And it was so improbable that one would hit 200k that it didn't matter. Then the Japanese influence 80s and digital od's changed it?
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The bus came by and I got on
That's when it all began... |
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old DKP driver
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2005
Posts: 4145
Location: Los Gatos,Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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At the dealer we sent them out to Sunnyvale Speedo repair and they always
came back with a sticker that was put on the B-pillar to insure that the OLD vs.
New Odometer repair was NOT changed. 
I know damn well that it's only a matter of time before a VDO speedo needs repair and, done correctly.and lawfully too. That is why there is a section on
the bill of sale for the readings
Need Gears 
http://www.odometergears.com/products/volkswagen/mechanical/+speedometer/19
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babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7107
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| Togz wrote: |
| So, may I hijack this thread? Was it just so common place that cars were essentially useless after 100k And it was so improbable that one would hit 200k that it didn't matter.? |
Yes, early cars that got 100,000 miles were a blessing. A car that was ten years old and had that many miles was average. Back in the late sixties and seventies 100k cars were the norm. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| As a teenager, I asked that same question to a friend of my dad's who bought cars for Temple Motors down in Southern California. "It's best not to show the buyer that the car has 148,000 miles and just let it show five digits... 48,000... and let the detail guys do their magic." |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9142
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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Pardon me Steve, but let me interrupt yet another of your doom and gloom posts with some reality. After 10 years, Federal Odometer disclosures are not required. You could set your odometer back to zero every week if you wanted to and no one is ever going to come after you. Anyone that buys a 40+ year old vehicle thinking the numbers on the odometer are accurate is a fool anyway. I love when someone asks how many miles are on my 65 Beetle. How the hell would I know? I can tell you what the odometer says but after 50 years I guess I would just assume it not to be accurate. Regardless, not only are cars exempt from the Federal Odometer Act after 10 years, most states (including NY) don't record the mileage on the title after that period. Here's the title to my 2000 Sierra Pickup for example...
So if we're talking about a vehicle less than 10 years old, don't mess with the odometer. When I was a dealership tech and we replaced a gauge cluster we also had to put a sticker on the B Pillar showing the mileage when the odometer was replaced. After 10 years, do what you will. Especially on a vintage VW....set it back all you want.
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First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9142
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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Oh, and here's the law I'm referring to for reference.
The Federal odometer law, 49 U.S.C. Chapter 327 (Public Law 103-272), prohibits the disconnection, resetting, or alteration of a motor vehicle's odometer with intent to change the number of miles indicated thereon. The law requires that a written disclosure of the mileage registered on an odometer be provided by the seller to the purchaser on the title to the vehicle when the ownership of a vehicle is transferred. If the odometer mileage is incorrect, the law requires a statement to that effect to be furnished on the title to the buyer. However, vehicles ten years old and older are exempt from the written disclosure requirements.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Odometer+Fraud/Odometer+Information+Overview+for+Consumers
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First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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jtauxe
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Odometer zero |
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| babysnakes wrote: |
| Togz wrote: |
| So, may I hijack this thread? Was it just so common place that cars were essentially useless after 100k And it was so improbable that one would hit 200k that it didn't matter.? |
Yes, early cars that got 100,000 miles were a blessing. A car that was ten years old and had that many miles was average. Back in the late sixties and seventies 100k cars were the norm. |
I don't think that was the motivation.
In Germany, as in most of the world, distances are measured in kilometers. The odometers for Type 2s sold were also in km, and used all six digits for full km, with no tenths. See the photo that BUSBOSS posted at the top of this thread. In this case, it would turn over only at 1 million km!
Enter the US (and UK) markets, and other backwards countries that had not adopted the superior metric system. These Neanderthals used miles, and I suppose that at least the US demanded to see 0.1-mile digits on the odometer.
The only way to accommodate this without redesigning the entire interior of the odometer was to use the same 6 digits, but with one assigned to the 0.1-mile place. That means it has to turn over at 100,000.0 miles. I guess VW figured well, just too bad for the Neanderthals.
So, that's my theory, and what it is, too. (obscure Monty Python reference).
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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