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New 2017cc locked up during break-in
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fccperdiem
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: New 2017cc locked up during break-in Reply with quote

My new 2017cc locked-up with in 20-30 seconds during break in. I fired it the first time and the light/ gauge showed nil. Shut it down, checked my wiring, and fired it back up. Still nothing. I was waiting for the oil pressure light to go out and watching my oil pressure gage...chunk! I tried to turn the crank, but not happening. I failed to prime the pump, didn't fill the oil lines going to/ from the filter, or fill the galley feeding the pressure sender Embarassed . Here's the kicker...I left it alone for a couple of hours, and thankfully it turns over by wrench with normal effort. My question is... if I correct my prior omissions, should I just try again?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tear it down already. You have internal damage on your parts because of improper oil priming. Rule of thumb. When first starting a new engine, you always check each and every part of the oil system. Plugs and rockers off, sending unit out, and ensure oil comes out the sending unit hole during the pressurizing for oil step. Do not attempt to restart it again no matter who says so. There is already damage.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you try again? You ran it without confirming oil pressure, it showed no pressure so you shut it down, you fired it back up and it seized. You have burnt bearings and or crank, after they cooled down you can turn the crank by hand, you still have burnt bearings. Tear it down and fix it before it's to late.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's done. Time to start all over.
Pull it apart, have the crank checked, clean the case and every other part.
NEVER start a new engine without priming the oil system.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had the same thing happen..... Lost oil pressure during break in. Primed it and did all the right stuff. Had 25lbs just cranking it with no plugs.

Didn't lock up lost oil pressure. Pulled it down and center bearing is toast and bearing behind crank gear is toast. Oil cooler was basically empty. Oil piston up by crank is stuck up......

Any ideas on how to hone the piston bore.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad Looks like the bearings were in stalled w/o any grease/lubricant on them.

If the mains are shot so are the rod bearings.

Oil goes thru the mains...the crank and rod journals in that order.

Always remove the coil wire first and then the oil sending unit...place a small can under the oil hole to collect any oil...turn the key to turn over the engine.

With a oil/assembly grease on the bearings there would be no damage.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fire her up and run her till she breaks....Wait you did that. Yup pull her apart and rebuild.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm iclined to agree with you all. The safe/ conservative thing to do would be to tear it down and start over. However, if it spins normally now, what's the worst that could happen? I seize a bearing, or ruin the crank or case. I may have done that allready. The thing that bothers me is... what if I didn't?
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to tear it down. Mine did not lock up and the bearings were trashed and the crank is gonna need a polish....not bad, but........... Also you need, as I, to find out what happened. I believe in my case the oil piston was stuck closed and only allowing marginal amounts of oil to the crank.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and what oil piston would that be?no mater where the pistons are stuck if the rest of the oil pumping system is working the bearings will still see oil pressure, even if the oil relief is open there is still oil pressure.do you think when the oil pressure gets to high and the relief open it stops the oil from flowing to the bearings???? not.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fccperdiem wrote:
I'm iclined to agree with you all. The safe/ conservative thing to do would be to tear it down and start over. However, if it spins normally now, what's the worst that could happen? I seize a bearing, or ruin the crank or case. I may have done that allready. The thing that bothers me is... what if I didn't?


no. see, that's where you're wrong.

you DEFINITELY have damage.


its not even a question.

the question is how bad is it

it spins normally now... who cares? it will spin "normally" too if the crank is sheared in half and you're only turning half the motor.

Seen it happen. Laughing
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark tucker wrote:
and what oil piston would that be?no mater where the pistons are stuck if the rest of the oil pumping system is working the bearings will still see oil pressure, even if the oil relief is open there is still oil pressure.do you think when the oil pressure gets to high and the relief open it stops the oil from flowing to the bearings???? not.


Well then what is the explanation..... I need to know

Bearings lubed during assembly, oil system prelubed, 50 lbs initially. New oil cooler. Oil pump packed with white grease. Oil temps through the roof in 20 minutes. Oil filter was pressurized when I took it off. oil piston stuck in up position. All clearances checked with mic and dial bore gauge.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tear it down and fix it.. It will just lock again.....

ALWAYS...... Spin up motor with PLUGS OUT to guaranteed oil flow.... If you use good assembly grease when assembling it, you can actual hear motor spin differently when oil pump has taken prime and is flowing oil... THEN its safe to put plugs back in and "light it off"...

Do not fire it off again without looking for damage because not doing so will only increase destruction and probable destroy more "salvageable" parts...

Dale
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
mark tucker wrote:
and what oil piston would that be?no mater where the pistons are stuck if the rest of the oil pumping system is working the bearings will still see oil pressure, even if the oil relief is open there is still oil pressure.do you think when the oil pressure gets to high and the relief open it stops the oil from flowing to the bearings???? not.


Well then what is the explanation..... I need to know

Bearings lubed during assembly, oil system prelubed, 50 lbs initially. New oil cooler. Oil pump packed with white grease. Oil temps through the roof in 20 minutes. Oil filter was pressurized when I took it off. oil piston stuck in up position. All clearances checked with mic and dial bore gauge.


S#!* happens....

Dale
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, logic sucks. Thanks, guys. Let the tear down begin...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
Tear it down and fix it.. It will just lock again.....

ALWAYS...... Spin up motor with PLUGS OUT to guaranteed oil flow.... If you use good assembly grease when assembling it, you can actual hear motor spin differently when oil pump has taken prime and is flowing oil... THEN its safe to put plugs back in and "light it off"...

Do not fire it off again without looking for damage because not doing so will only increase destruction and probable destroy more "salvageable" parts...

Dale


Did this.......

And sorry for the highjack, but thought you and I could both learn something
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
Dale M. wrote:
Tear it down and fix it.. It will just lock again.....

ALWAYS...... Spin up motor with PLUGS OUT to guaranteed oil flow.... If you use good assembly grease when assembling it, you can actual hear motor spin differently when oil pump has taken prime and is flowing oil... THEN its safe to put plugs back in and "light it off"...

Do not fire it off again without looking for damage because not doing so will only increase destruction and probable destroy more "salvageable" parts...

Dale


Did this.......

And sorry for the highjack, but thought you and I could both learn something



Did the drive tang of the pump come out of the cam????

Gears tight on the pump shaft???

Just giving some thoughts not picking on you.....

Dished cam with a flat oil pump???
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:
MURZI wrote:
Dale M. wrote:
Tear it down and fix it.. It will just lock again.....

ALWAYS...... Spin up motor with PLUGS OUT to guaranteed oil flow.... If you use good assembly grease when assembling it, you can actual hear motor spin differently when oil pump has taken prime and is flowing oil... THEN its safe to put plugs back in and "light it off"...

Do not fire it off again without looking for damage because not doing so will only increase destruction and probable destroy more "salvageable" parts...

Dale


Did this.......

And sorry for the highjack, but thought you and I could both learn something



Did the drive tang of the pump come out of the cam????

Gears tight on the pump shaft???

Just giving some thoughts not picking on you.....

Dished cam with a flat oil pump???


New shadeck 26mm. Flat cam gear. Even lapped the oil pump for zero deck. Aligned oil holes in bearings with case by hand. Doesn't make sense really. Only odd thing I see is the stuck oil piston.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: New 2017cc locked up during break-in Reply with quote

fccperdiem wrote:
I fired it the first time and the light/ gauge showed nil. Shut it down, checked my wiring, and fired it back up. Still nothing. I was waiting for the oil pressure light to go out and watching my oil pressure gage...chunk!


I don't think this is what they had in mind when they say to "stick with it" and "don't give up".
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: New 2017cc locked up during break-in Reply with quote

All too often, I read about people's problems with their VWs, but rarely hear what actually fixed the problem. I thought I would close the loop on one of my little issues.

To recap... I tried to break in an engine for the first run without filling the oil line from the oil pump to my remote filter. To make matters worse, I did fill the oil filter, but not the lines after it going to the thermostat and cooler Embarassed . I fired it up, and it seized. The gurus suggested that it was game over, and I should tear it down and fix what I toasted.

After considering the wise advice from all contributors, I decided not to abandon the attempt, and to try and run it again. I went back and filled all the oil lines/filter/oil pressure sender galley and pulled the plugs (awesome suggestion). I cranked the engine until I had oil pressure.

I am happy to report that after 5 years, and +50k miles, the engine has been perfect! The oil pressure is still north of 40psi with oil temp at 180F.
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