The CHEAP Insurance Policy: Fuel Line Smart Check Valve

[msinabottle]

We know and all fear the... very bad thing... that can happen to our vans. I have long considered installing either a manual or Ford-style electric fuel line shut-off valve into Winston's fuel line in between the tank and the engine.

I AM going to do something about Winston's plastic firewall fitting, although I have looked at it and it appears to be fairly new. I think I should also do something about Winston's aging plastic fuel rails.

I could pay $40 to Van Cafe, a good company that supports us, for a metal firewall fitting... I could buy metal fuel rails for as much as $48.50 each, or make them from that Harbor Freight 4-way hydraulic adapter. But for not too much more I could buy a Metric Bubble Flare kit and start replacing nearly ALL of Winston's rubber fuel line with steel fuel line.

I'd love to get thoughts from people such as Wildthings and GeeZ12 who've done it, details such as diameter of the line, means to isolate vibration, and ways, if they exist, to attach metal fuel lines directly to metal fuel rails. I'd love to hear from tencentlife about how to route the new metal fuel lines in the best way. And along the same lines, those being to SAVE OUR VANS, there are THESE things, which I found by following a link from a discussion about the plastic fitting:

http://www.smartproducts.com/check_valves.php

As that forum post is by a 'Wildthings' and we have one of those here, I do wonder if the idea might be from one of our own.

I don't know what size we'd need, the thread said you'd want a 'smart check valve' that would shut off automatically at 1.5 'pounds,' I presume PSI, and that means that if the pressure in the line fell suddenly (or is it increased?) the valve would shut off INSTANTLY... and the bad thing would only have whatever gas was in the line before it to combust.

I not only invite your information and your thoughts--I plead for them. For the sake of the children... Okay, the Vanagons. If it only saves one Van...



Best!
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'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence."

[hans j]

You could probably do a pressure switch on the return side of the FPR. That side should lose pressure if there is a leak and will turn off the pump. You might need some sort of timer relay in order for the car to run enough to build pressure?
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[buildyourown]

You'd have to have a massive leak to be detected by a pressure switch. A pin hole leak under pressure would cause almost zero pressure drop.

[PDXWesty]

[dixoncj]

You'd probably have more luck with a fire suppression system.
http://www.ansul.com/en/Products/nonroad_sys/vehicle_nonroad_list.asp

[Christopher Schimke]

I don't mean to extinguish your idea, and please don't flame me for speaking up, but just to add fuel to the fire, a fine mist of fuel is much more dangerous (ignites much easier) than a steady stream of fuel from the open end of a hose. I know this is a hot topic and it warrants a heated discussion. But like the others, I'm not sure that a check valve will hold any water in this case....unfortunately!
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[70coupyel]

[J Charlton]

1 piece metal fuel line from the filter right up and through the firewall is the way to go. 5/16" steel brake line works nicely. You can either find/buy a grommet to isolate the line as it passes throught he firewall or get a tapered rubber flask stopper (remember them from H.S. chemistry?) - drill out the centre so that the line passes through it - the taper will allow you to twist it into place through the firewall and it will hold securely. short lengths of fuel line (hose) slipped on the steel line and positioned wherever the steel line would contact the frame will isolate it nicely. Support the steel line wherever possible.
Re joining - I'd just use short lengths of good quality fuel line and good clamps. You can get an adequate tube bender for under $20.00 to make the job pretty easy.
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NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024

[msinabottle]

Okay, so that's the problem with the check valve... I do wonder if we could get SOME mechanism that finely calibrated. How about my other idea? A manual or electric control valve in the main fuel line? Anybody ever installed that? Shinnying under the van to turn off a manual valve would require... Time and courage, hitting the button on an electric cutoff valve would require current and awareness.

I did a cursory 'Google' and found these:

http://www.dan-marc.com/rv-parts-12-volt-fuel-shut-off-valves.html

and references to cheap electric shut off valves for Chevy trucks. One of those might make a neat kill switch with more of a bonus than the other sort. Further suggestions from my other brain trust is to wire the valve in parallel with the fuel pump with a switch that kills BOTH the pump and turns off the fuel with the valve, which sounds wise. I'd still have to notice the disaster, but it would give me something to do besides pray for death.



Anyone have anything to say about metal line in the engine compartment? I have this from a wise friend:

[J Charlton]

OK - let's run with the burnable link idea for a minute - the problem, as I understand it, is that the fuel pump continues to pump fuel onto a hot engine - if the fuel pump was switched off, no more fuel so the fire would be limited to consuming the fuel in the immediate engine bay and lines - some damage for sure, but maybe containable.
So - the question is, how do we locate a serial metal fuse in the engine bay that would fuse (melt) when subjected to high temperatures? if this "burnable link" was an electrical conductor it could be wired in series to the +ve wire to the fuel pump - if it burned/melted the fuel pump circuit would be open and the fuel pump would be off.
OK - I just thought of something - I'll sketch it out and then edit thios post to add it.
More of my art work :D -- this is just a first idea - it would be better if the "block" itself were made of a non flammable material but the idea is that the block would melt quickly and the contact strip would drop out of the circuit, shutting off the fuel pump.

_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024

[Farf]

This idea has some potential. Fusible links are commonly used on modern furnaces to shut gas flow during a high temperature event and must be replaced if they open. Heres a link to some that are available:

http://www.americanhvacparts.com/Merchant2/merchan...itfuselink

I think they can be purchased for alot less money through WW Grainger or similar supply house.

Mike

[JPrato]

An electrically operated shut off valve before the pump after tank certainly wouldn't hurt and could double as a theft deterrent measure too. It may be too late by the time a line burns through in the back, but in the stock configuration once that happens the tank will just dump fuel all over the place making quite a marshmallow roasting fire then.
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Joe

87 Syncro Tin Top project
84 Westy, 2.5L Subaru power
06 Subaru 2.5 turbo in waiting
46 Cessna 140

[J Charlton]

A shut off before the fuel pump would be a good idea - but for it to be effective it should probably mimic the Fuel Shut Off Solenoid on a diesel engine. The default position is "off" meaning that the fuel flow is cut off. If power is supplied, the solenoid opens, allowing fuel to flow.
If there were a temperature sensitive fuse in the engine bay in series with the power supply to both the fuel pump and Fuel Shut OFF Solenoid, then if there was an engine bay fire, the fuse would melt, power to the fuel pump would be cut, shutting it off and the FSOS would slam shut cutting off all fuel flow from the tank.
_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024

[danfromsyr]

Spring loaded switch tied oen with a length of fishing line across the engine bay.. (think grenade & tripwire but opposite effect)
the fishing line cares not about regular engine room temperatures. but will surely fail in presence of flames..


as for the metal lines.. well the Bay window buses have them and they still catch on fire too often.

best bet is dilligence, consider it a mamogram or prostrate exam and self-study the fuel lines weekly.. or at least with each oil change.

fwiw the plastic line from the filter to the firewall fitting is safe and secure in an fire. it will (does/did in our burned van's case) fuse shut even while burning.. we drained another 5gals out of thet ank of my brother's burned van once we clipped the melted end of the vinyl line..
but it won't do anything if the pump is running..

I'm liking the spring loaded trip switch and fishing line.. it's easy to add a switch to interupt the fuel pump wires where the exit the engine compartment near the aircleaner.
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[Steelhead]

I wonder how much an automatic extinguisher system like this would cost.
http://www.firetrace.com/english/applications/on-road-vehicles/?page=automobiles

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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper)

[Cygnus]

These are made for boats and start around $200

http://shopping.rexmar.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?...boyauto227

Seriously considering something like this.


-B
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'86 Syncro Timbertech Hightop "Cygnus"

[Cygnus]

A quick search of RV products came up with this one - supposedly around $200 as well...

http://www.firefightproducts.com/Home_Page.php

-B
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'86 Syncro Timbertech Hightop "Cygnus"