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matthew henricks
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Joined: January 02, 2002
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Location: So. Cal
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 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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I read thru all the threads that talk about the various bus intake manifolds. None meantion "F".
(searched 211 129 701)
My 1965 1600 SP w/ governer has a "F" code manifold and just gave up the ghost. (blew out the heat riser) Need a new one. The threads already here sugges i should use a C, D or G manifod.
Anyone know what "F" was for while i search for a good replacement?
Thanks |
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BarryL 
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know but since you had the "F" one did you notice anything weird about it as far as fitting the carb, governor, or spacing/diameter/riser/etc? "F" cases are 1300 cc but they were Beetle and didn't have governors. I have all the alphabet ones except "F" and each higher lettered manifold is improved in some way. |
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Lind
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Location: idaho
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:28 am Post subject: |
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the letter at the end of the parts number is the modification of that part. A being the first, B the second and so on. the modifications could be minor like a different style of casting where something attaches. they were quite meticulous about such things. the F modification could have even been a replacement which was manufactured in the '70s.
any of the earlier manifolds will probably work. if you have trouble finding a good 211 manifold, just cut the neck off of your manifold and carefully weld it onto a 113 manifold.
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matthew henricks
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Joined: January 02, 2002
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Barry & Lind.
Sounds like i can use any of the letter codes designed for a governer. Off to look for a good replacement... |
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guatebus
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Location: Oakland, CA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have a decent "D" manifold if you're interested.
Not sure where you're located, but it'd probably be better to pick up locally here in Northern California or I can deliver it to the Kelley Park show.
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BarryL
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| The "G" has a cutout for the generator stand/strap/generator clearance and there is no brazing like the earlier editions. |
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BarryL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:16 am Post subject: |
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The "D" style goes on and off with the generator stand removed. Sometimes you can get it on or off without removing the stand but it's not easy.
The "G" style was modified for ease of installation removal. "D"s can be made into "G"s by grinding.
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BarryL
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Here's how to turn a 211 "D" style into a more copacetic "G" style.
The G number.
Where the cutout is on a G.
A D like the one I started with how it's not cut.
The D number.
The final cutaway using a Dremel and sand paper.
No biggie and now it will come on and off with the generator stand in place. |
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easy e
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BarryL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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| easy e wrote: |
I have three G (bottom 3 of first pic) and one F (top manifold in first pic).
No apparent difference. |
How 'bout brazing vs no brazing at the heat riser drop? |
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easy e
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BarryL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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| matthew henricks wrote: |
I read thru all the threads that talk about the various bus intake manifolds. None meantion "F".
(searched 211 129 701)
My 1965 1600 SP w/ governer has a "F" code manifold and just gave up the ghost. (blew out the heat riser) Need a new one. The threads already here sugges i should use a C, D or G manifod.
Anyone know what "F" was for while i search for a good replacement?
Thanks |
This is from the oacdp project website and directly answers the original poster's question.
Not sure how it got overlooked but possibly because it is further down on the list or maybe it has been added since this thread originated.
Here's the original list from the oacdp project website.
All you Progressive Refinements people and engine builders probably already knew all the various 211 manifold change applications. I'm always the last one to the party and learn stuff the hard way but have finally congealed some interesting things about these non 36 and 40 horse 211 manifolds.
What is different about the F manifold beginning with the H engine?
The large diameter generator is one thing that is different. It makes the generator closer to the carburetor throttle and accelerator pump lever.
Another thing that is different about the F manifold beginning with the H engine is the 30PICT1 carburetor. More about that later as the 28PICT1 and the 30PICT1 appear the same outwardly. But they aren't.
The difference of the F manifold (and next suffix G manifold) compared to previous versions is the governor/carburetor pipe is further to the left. Also the governor/carburetor flange in NOT canted slightly clockwise but absolutely straight ahead.
In the past when I built up an engine I would grab the best 211 manifold I could find: one that I could clean out the heat riser tube or one that was already unclogged. I never knew there was anything else to think about beside aligning the heat risers and head mating. Most of the time during assembly I ran into trouble with carb proximity to the generator or alignment of the throttle cable but I just figured VW made the manifold shoddy or they had been bent somehow in their lives.
One thing I've learned over the years is that VW exquisitly engineered everything they ever built. VW never made anything shoddy. The shoddy glitches I thought were quality control were always a conundrum to me so I just assumed the manifolds were always just bent.
Recently I acquired an NOS 211 manifold from a reputable member and decided to gather all my manifolds in one place and compare the versions of 211 manifolds I had. Soon I realized the obvious change.
Two H engine G (same as F) 211 manifold versions in the distance.
Two earlier pre-H engine D 211 manifold versions in the foreground.
Using a straight edge I aligned all the left side head intakes.
Next I got my carpenter square to start some measurments.
First thing I noticed was the F style manifolds have the intake riser farther to the left and the flange is in-line vs the D style manifolds are canted clockwise at the intake flange.
Aligning the carpenter square against the center line of the rear hole in the flange of the manifold I started to get some measurements.
The D 211 manifolds are 12 1/4" from the left side.
The F-style 211 manifolds are 11 5/8" from the left side.
My conclusion is that the F-style 211 manifolds (and G) are 5/8" to the left of the previous versions to give the generator and carburetor more clearance. Also the F-version has the intake flange in line with the vehicle to accomodate the newer 30PICT-1 carb which has a lever that moves the throttle cable pivot further to the right. |
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srfndoc
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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Makes sense. Thanks for documenting the differences.
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easy e
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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Excellent observation work Barry! Thank you!
Do we know what the difference is between F & G?
Maybe I missed it? (edit: just noticed you said F & G are same)
1965 bus is 42 bhp with the 28 PICT-1, 90mm generator.
The 44 bhp started Aug 2, 1965 (H case)
‘66 (and ‘67) is 105mm generator, right?
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BarryL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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| easy e wrote: |
1965 bus is 42 bhp with the 28 PICT-1, 90mm generator.
The 44 bhp started Aug 2, 1965 (H case)
‘66 (and ‘67) is 105mm generator, right? |
Right.
However when M-coded for the larger amp generator it could have come with the 105mm diameter generator as far back as '63 (?). I have a German delivery '65 that came with a 1200 and large generator with the honeymoon tight 40 horse 211 manifold but it still worked. |
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easy e
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BarryL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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| easy e wrote: |
| Interesting... I thought the M-coded early 12v were 90mm with a 12v armature. |
| BarryL wrote: |
| However when M-coded for the larger amp generator it could have come with the 105mm diameter generator as far back as '63 (?) |
The 105mm higher amperage generator I'm referring to is 6 volt. But, yeah, you could have gotten the 12 volt system too. The '66 default generator was 6 volt.
Of course, all these large diameter generators require the complementing pedestal. |
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easy e
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BarryL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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I saw that so probably true.
My March '65 German delivery 6 volt came with the large diameter 105mm push-on terminals and the wheel well mounted regulator that was a not a hack on a 40 horse. I'll see what I can find out. |
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BarryL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Stock Manifold guru's. 211 129 701 F. What was it for? |
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| easy e wrote: |
| Looks like regardless of amperage...all pre-66 6v generators were 90mm |
The more I look the more you're correct about the listings for the 90mm. But I tried to back-door search to see of it were possible the large diameter pedestal came out before August '65 and could have been installed earlier by a dealer or factory option and the oacdp website does not show an engine number start issue. The small diameter pedestal, of course, started with Bastard. |
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