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Transmission Failure **Solved!**
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Transmission Failure **Solved!** Reply with quote

As the title suggests, I had a transmission failure last night...

It just 'popped' while in reverse during a three point turn. "POP".... then a slow grinding sound that was unaffected with the clutch pressed down. I had all four spots in the shift pattern, just no effect at the wheels.

I towed it the three blocks to my sister's house this morning and there was a noticeable growl in neutral the whole way... I'm doing the work where it sits now, at her place.

This is how I started this morning:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ass in the air and the bumper removed:
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The trans ready to remove:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




I am stuck at the 27mm cradle bolts... I need to barrow a socket. (Thanks Burt!) Then the only thing left before removal is the brake lines...

I'm headed back over there now... anyone care to hazard a guess as to what the nature of the failure is?

My guess is the big "C" clip that retains the axle at the diff... I am keeping track of this issue, and the ultimate solution, as I fix this before the Madera show on the 29th of this month.

Stay tuned! Very Happy

EDIT: **SOLVED!**[/GVideo]
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Last edited by Busryder on Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Gaudet Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripped rear brake drum?
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I did think of that Terry, I checked BEFORE I pulled the trans, but....

Nope... both drums are fine, with nice tight splines.

Pullin' axles now... hoping is IS just that big "C" clip, snap ring... keeping my fingers crossed guys.
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found it.... WHY do you think this happened?

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Opinions are highly valued... but please remember that this is straight 'budget' work.

Thanks for following this today....
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Campy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you removed the cover that goes against the "daisy" and the bell end of the axle tube, the axle, snap ring, and thrust washer came out of the side gear? I've installed many snap rings in a side case over the side gear and thrust washer, and they did not always go all of the way into the groove in the case. Maybe your snapring was never all of the way in the groove. I had to mess around with mine, sometimes, and even use a large flat screwdriver to poke them in the groove. I hope that that section of the case did not break.
It looks like the outside of the bell end of the axle tube has been scoured. How is the daisy and cover that goes over it? Remember to remove the side gear and inspect it for cracks on the outside and wear oh the inside, and wear on the two fulcrum plates and the shovel end of the axle.
I hope that you removed the brake drum before removing the transaxle.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Campy wrote:
I've installed many snap rings in a side case over the side gear and thrust washer, and they did not always go all of the way into the groove in the case. Maybe your snapring was never all of the way in the groove. I had to mess around with mine, sometimes, and even use a large flat screwdriver to poke them in the groove.


Was thinking the same thing...
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WideFive wrote:
Campy wrote:
I've installed many snap rings in a side case over the side gear and thrust washer, and they did not always go all of the way into the groove in the case. Maybe your snapring was never all of the way in the groove. I had to mess around with mine, sometimes, and even use a large flat screwdriver to poke them in the groove.


Was thinking the same thing...


Cru, Wide5, all of the above checked out... and I made double sure that the snap ring was seated properly. The case was not broken/chipped, but the outside lip of the retaining groove was a bit buggered on one side... about 1/4th of an inch long. (Too dark to photo w/fone-camera, sorry.)

Faulty snap ring:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New-ish replacement snap ring... gently 'encouraged' into place. This is the nexus point, I get to work in reverse now... putting things back.
Very Happy
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I put everything back together in the morning. The moment of truth will be tomorrow night!

Yay!
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Campy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The snap ring was not broken and just popped out of the groove? That is probably what caused the scarring on the outer side of part of the groove (or was it there berfore?). In the picture, the damage by the groove looks bad enough so that the snap ring will pop out, again. The snapring would had to have lost some of its tension or else not been in the groove all of the way in order for it to pop out of the groove, if it had not broken.
How did the side gear, fulcrum plates, and shovel end of the axle look?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busryder wrote:
My guess is the big "C" clip that retains the axle at the diff...


Busryder wrote:
I found it.... WHY do you think this happened?


What did you already know about it? The bent snap ring looks like it has had a lot of thrust from spider-gear to side-gear slop. Is your thrust washer thickness enough?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
Busryder wrote:
My guess is the big "C" clip that retains the axle at the diff...


Busryder wrote:
I found it.... WHY do you think this happened?


What did you already know about it? The bent snap ring looks like it has had a lot of thrust from spider-gear to side-gear slop. Is your thrust washer thickness enough?


Almost nothing Barry... it's a used $100 68' bug trans though. Installed in August of 10'.

But I'm not sure how much stress I could've put on it in reverse during a mild three point turn? I have digi-calipers, how thick should the washer actually be?

I do not want to have to pull this shit all back apart if there is something that's gonna cause this to happen again soon... Evil or Very Mad

I guess I'm feeling my age... I am pretty sore after yanking this all out yesterday. Confused

It all should be back in tonight... keeping my fingers crossed.

Tank you for the comments so far guys. Very Happy
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Lind wrote:
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

Me, an OVP Lifer...
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The transmission is back in... waiting for the new throwout bearing and clips. But it's lunch time now.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

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wbrown45
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good news. Aren't you glad it wasn't a modern car's automatic? They can set you back $3-4k!
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wbrown45 wrote:
That's good news. Aren't you glad it wasn't a modern car's automatic? ]They can set you back $3-4k!


Yes I am! I'm even happier that I can/know how to do this work myself....

Anyway, after some delays... I have everything set up to drop it back on the ground. BUT..... I found a faulty hard line on the rear driver side. This is the only thing holding me up from driving the Westy home tonight. I'll get a new one on Monday, tomorrow morning.

She sleeps til then:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'll have her ready for the Taco-Wagen by lunch time tomorrow afternoon. Very Happy

Thanks for watching!
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Lind wrote:
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

Me, an OVP Lifer...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busryder wrote:
wbrown45 wrote:
That's good news. Aren't you glad it wasn't a modern car's automatic? ]They can set you back $3-4k!


Yes I am! I'm even happier that I can/know how to do this work myself....


I thought it was astute that you thought it was the snap-ring and it was the snap-ring. It could have been a lot of things: of course, nothing RGBesque.
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission Failure Reply with quote

Busryder wrote:
It just 'popped' while in reverse during a three point turn. "POP".... then a slow grinding sound that was unaffected with the clutch pressed down. I had all four spots in the shift pattern, just no effect at the wheels.

I towed it the three... ...and there was a noticeable growl in neutral the whole way...


Thanks B.... but to be very honest, it was just an educated guess. One that was purely based on the symptoms I was experiencing.
It was either this or a blown ring/pinion, which was less likely to have been the problem considering when the failure occurred.

Then, of course, making it to the show as a 'participant' rather than just a 'spectator' can be a pretty big motivator... I am NOT going to drive the Toyota to a show. Period. I'd almost rather stay home... Rolling Eyes

Busryder wrote:
I am keeping track of this issue, and the ultimate solution, as I fix this before the Madera show on the 29th of this month.

Stay tuned! Very Happy



But thanks for the kind words. Very Happy

If this pop's out again, could the little bit of bugger-ing I noticed on the retaining groove be the cause? (Duh) If so, is that groove cut into the transmission case, or in the diff itself?

I also took advantage of the time that the motor was out to do some routine maintenance, and close up some exhaust leaks.
And I should have this home tonight... barring any major accidents.

(Man am I sore... I can't wait for this to be done, I don't even want to look at tools for at least a week!)

Thanks! Very Happy
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Lind wrote:
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

Me, an OVP Lifer...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now ready to procede.... just need a partner to help with the bleeding of the brakes, and to wire up the new oil temp guage at the dash.

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Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I now have gears! Yay! Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


BTW, I've taken all of these pics, as they've happend, with my Google phone... Shocked Laughing

Thanks for all the tips guys, really.
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Lind wrote:
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

Me, an OVP Lifer...
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busryder wrote:
I now have gears! Yay! Very Happy


Not only do I have them... but they work too now!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The green stuff is WORX all natural hand cleaner... AWESOME shit!

And I just finished wiring up the new gauges... notice the OP gauge? Nice, huh?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Still looking for the right temp gauge though... Very Happy

Thanks for watching, and for the tips, everyone.
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Lind wrote:
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

Me, an OVP Lifer...
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Busryder
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busryder wrote:
I now have gears! Yay! Very Happy


Not only do I have them... but they work too now!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The green stuff is WORX all natural hand cleaner... AWESOME shit!

And I just finished wiring up the new gauges... notice the OP gauge? Nice, huh?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Still looking for the right temp gauge though... Very Happy

Thanks for watching, and for the tips, everyone.
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Lind wrote:
Apparently I was just the lucky asshole that showed up at the right time.


I am a Dick, hear me roar- Laughing

Me, an OVP Lifer...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing
Busryder, you are the king of quoting yourself!
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