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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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 Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel line replacement/type |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
And always monitor the fuel lines routinely. It's clear though the braided fuel line needs replacing at no more than 2 years. Both the 30R7 and 30R14 are excellent at handling the ethanol based fuel for long durations.
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To the best of my knowledge 30r7 hose isn't specced for use with alcohol fuels, some brands may be okay but others will fall apart in short order. IMO the spec should be updated specifically to make it handle alcohols fuels, if not updated the spec should just plain be eliminated. |
Goodyear spec on 30R7
http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=17820
Ran it for six years with no cracking, swelling, stiffness, shrinkage of any kind. As for the braided hose monitor it closely and replace at no more than 2 year interval regardless of condition.
That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the 30R9 or 30R14 hose.
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nathansnathan
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Joined: April 14, 2008
Posts: 1671
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
To the best of my knowledge 30r7 hose isn't specced for use with alcohol fuels, some brands may be okay but others will fall apart in short order. IMO the spec should be updated specifically to make it handle alcohols fuels, if not updated the spec should just plain be eliminated. |
Like I said at the beginning of the thread, 30R7 is rated to be used with ethanol gas. I just replaced all my lines with more of the stuff. The 30r7 goodyear hoses I took off were perfect after more than 3 years of use, the other stuff was cracked and brittle, some braided and non-braided German hose. The link above specifically says about 30r7:
| Quote: |
| Leaded and unleaded gasoline, diesel fuel, gasoline blends of ethanol (E10), E-85 and sour gas. |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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The 30R7 and most 30R9 hoses don't stop evaporation of the alcohol and lighter ethers in fuels now through it like the 30R14 prevents it. 30R14 is required to be lined - it is in the specs. Since I installed 30R14 Gates Barricade, I no longer notice that ever present very light scent of fuel near the vents and under the bus when it sits in the garage. It was the fuel evaporating thru the 30R7 line and 30R9 line that was the source of it and it drove me nuts trying to find the source. Nothing was ever wet or stained and the smell was strongest near long runs of hose. None of my other cars have the smell but they all have steel fuel lines from the tank to the engine and have since 1992. Fuels going back to my carbed vehicles prior to 1992 are totally different than today. I know for example that my older now sold boat with a Mercury outboard never had fuel line leaks prior to about 1994 or 1995 and every year thereafter until I sold it the fuel hose failed and sprung a leak. They were special crimped hoses and they were all old stock from the late 70's. As the fuels changed in the 90's the issue developed.
30R7 is low pressure hose where 30R9 is FI line.
Gates says about their 30R7 low pressure hose:
| Quote: |
| At times, more aggressive fuels can extract the oils that give SAE 30R7 hose its flexibility. The result is a brittle, stiff tube that will greatly reduce the performance and service life of the hose. |
They then speak of their 30R9 hose and indicate under 30R14 specs that not all 30R9 hose have inner liners as it is not in the 30R9 spec. Only the 30R14 spec has the requirement of an inner liner which what reduces the evaporation.
| Quote: |
| Fuel injection hose is designed for low permeation contact with a wide variety of alcohols, alcohol fuel blends, and diesel fuel. It allows 15g/m2/day permeation whereas standard SAE 30R7 hose allows 550g/m2/day. (Gates fuel injection hose routinely performs at 1 to 2g/m2/day of fuel loss, well below the allowable standard.) |
Gates Barricade 30R14 hose is spec'd at 1g/m2/day or less. The test performed: "Third-party SAE J1737 fuel permeation tests conducted by Akron Rubber Development Labs"
We have to be one of the few forums in the world obsessed with fuel hose differences.
SGK |
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ewdb92
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Joined: September 24, 2010
Posts: 502
Location: Plymouth, NH
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Earlier in this thread, I mentioned replacing my lines with the goodyear 30r7 stuff as an experiment and like the recent posters, found them in good shape a year later - maybe a tad bit stiffer than the unused stuff hanging in the garage. That said, I am in agreement with SGK about smell. I got tired of my garage smelling like a gas can (especially after a hot days drive) and after failing to find other sources for vapor leaks, switched to barricade 30r14 3/16" ID. The garage has been a more pleasant smelling place this summer as a result.
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DougB
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Posts: 1076
Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hey all,
I have a fuel injected stock '75 engine, so if I understand this correctly I'd need 5/16 fuel hose. I'd like to go with the Gates Barricade, but want to verify that I'm looking at the correct part number for the hose.
Does part number 27335 look like the right one? It's MPI hose, not the carb hose.
Thanks in advance!
- Doug
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DougB wrote: |
Hey all,
I have a fuel injected stock '75 engine, so if I understand this correctly I'd need 5/16 fuel hose. I'd like to go with the Gates Barricade, but want to verify that I'm looking at the correct part number for the hose.
Does part number 27335 look like the right one? It's MPI hose, not the carb hose.
Thanks in advance!
- Doug |
That would be the one. |
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aryue
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 1027
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ewdb92 wrote: |
| Earlier in this thread, I mentioned replacing my lines with the goodyear 30r7 stuff as an experiment and like the recent posters, found them in good shape a year later - maybe a tad bit stiffer than the unused stuff hanging in the garage. That said, I am in agreement with SGK about smell. I got tired of my garage smelling like a gas can (especially after a hot days drive) and after failing to find other sources for vapor leaks, switched to barricade 30r14 3/16" ID. The garage has been a more pleasant smelling place this summer as a result. |
With that testimony - I'm sold. I even found the part # on page 3 below - Gates #27312
http://www.gates.com/downloads/BarricadeBrochure.pdf
- Andrew in Austin, TX -
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| the high pressure FI line will be marked 225 PSI on it every foot or so as I recall. I put it down in my post but I think the 5/16 was perfect for the high pressure side and I used 1/2 inch for the short filter section. O'Reillys had it - they had to order the 1/2 inch and someone shipped them a whole spool like 200' so they just gave me 1 foot off that for free. I used the high pressure line for everything else but it is overkill you don't have to do that. I just didn't want to do the "and 2' of that," and "18" of that and ... |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Some bits and pieces to add to the mix.
Bear in mind that the fuel hose problems are probably not JUST ethanol related.
Ethanol is a big part of the problem. But...there are LOTS of other additives in winter,summer, high smog areas and other types of regional fuel blends.
After speaking with a few people I have met over the years...two of which worked at central fuel distribution points (one in Oklahoma city and another in Vienna/Fairfax Virginia).....some central fuel distribution centers (there is at least one in every large city and a bare minimum of one in every state....get their fuels pre-blended with additives through the pipeline...but many others blend on site.
This means that many blend ethanol and a range of other fuel additives on site.
I can guarantee that the summer and winter fuels that are available in hot states with ozone problems are totally different that those from cooler states.
I crossed five states last week on a drive. The fuel in Texas is a different smell, color and drive quality than that in Iowa. Its not just ethanol...its ethanol and other additive chemicals.
This is why some may do just fine with a 30R7 or 30R9...and in other locations...nothing less than R13 or r14 may work well.
Its also why modern cars over teh last 3 years have gone to nylon lines 
Ray |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Some bits and pieces to add to the mix.
Bear in mind that the fuel hose problems are probably not JUST ethanol related.
Ethanol is a big part of the problem. But...there are LOTS of other additives in winter,summer, high smog areas and other types of regional fuel blends.
After speaking with a few people I have met over the years...two of which worked at central fuel distribution points (one in Oklahoma city and another in Vienna/Fairfax Virginia).....some central fuel distribution centers (there is at least one in every large city and a bare minimum of one in every state....get their fuels pre-blended with additives through the pipeline...but many others blend on site.
This means that many blend ethanol and a range of other fuel additives on site.
I can guarantee that the summer and winter fuels that are available in hot states with ozone problems are totally different that those from cooler states.
I crossed five states last week on a drive. The fuel in Texas is a different smell, color and drive quality than that in Iowa. Its not just ethanol...its ethanol and other additive chemicals.
This is why some may do just fine with a 30R7 or 30R9...and in other locations...nothing less than R13 or r14 may work well.
Its also why modern cars over teh last 3 years have gone to nylon lines
Ray |
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webwalker
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2006
Posts: 2803
Location: Mount Laurel, NJ
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Its also why modern cars over teh last 3 years have gone to nylon lines
Ray |
So can I just skip ahead to nylon? 
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Some bits and pieces to add to the mix.
Bear in mind that the fuel hose problems are probably not JUST ethanol related.
Ethanol is a big part of the problem. But...there are LOTS of other additives in winter,summer, high smog areas and other types of regional fuel blends.
After speaking with a few people I have met over the years...two of which worked at central fuel distribution points (one in Oklahoma city and another in Vienna/Fairfax Virginia).....some central fuel distribution centers (there is at least one in every large city and a bare minimum of one in every state....get their fuels pre-blended with additives through the pipeline...but many others blend on site.
This means that many blend ethanol and a range of other fuel additives on site.
I can guarantee that the summer and winter fuels that are available in hot states with ozone problems are totally different that those from cooler states.
I crossed five states last week on a drive. The fuel in Texas is a different smell, color and drive quality than that in Iowa. Its not just ethanol...its ethanol and other additive chemicals.
This is why some may do just fine with a 30R7 or 30R9...and in other locations...nothing less than R13 or r14 may work well.
Its also why modern cars over teh last 3 years have gone to nylon lines
Ray |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
Some bits and pieces to add to the mix.
Bear in mind that the fuel hose problems are probably not JUST ethanol related.
Ethanol is a big part of the problem. But...there are LOTS of other additives in winter,summer, high smog areas and other types of regional fuel blends.
After speaking with a few people I have met over the years...two of which worked at central fuel distribution points (one in Oklahoma city and another in Vienna/Fairfax Virginia).....some central fuel distribution centers (there is at least one in every large city and a bare minimum of one in every state....get their fuels pre-blended with additives through the pipeline...but many others blend on site.
This means that many blend ethanol and a range of other fuel additives on site.
I can guarantee that the summer and winter fuels that are available in hot states with ozone problems are totally different that those from cooler states.
I crossed five states last week on a drive. The fuel in Texas is a different smell, color and drive quality than that in Iowa. Its not just ethanol...its ethanol and other additive chemicals.
This is why some may do just fine with a 30R7 or 30R9...and in other locations...nothing less than R13 or r14 may work well.
Its also why modern cars over teh last 3 years have gone to nylon lines
Ray |
Ray - you are stuttering again  |
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Dansux
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Joined: August 22, 2013
Posts: 128
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| I just picked up 4' of 1/4 Barricade at my local Napa and it was only $2.49 a foot. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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D-D-D-Damn.....I dont know what that is. It happens when i post from work 9which I should not be doing)...probably a bounce back from the NSA or Chinese surveilance sites.
yes....nylon is now easy to get. you can buy it at Summit racing and several other places by the roll for about as cheap as rubber fuel line. Ray |
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
D-D-D-Damn.....I dont know what that is. It happens when i post from work 9which I should not be doing)...probably a bounce back from the NSA or Chinese surveilance sites.
yes....nylon is now easy to get. you can buy it at Summit racing and several other places by the roll for about as cheap as rubber fuel line. Ray |
Is it available in metric sizes?
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cdennisg
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ivwshane
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Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 1920
Location: Sacramento ca
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: |
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It says it has a working PSI of 150 compared to 225 for the gates hose. Is 150 adequate?
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tootype2crazy
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ROCKOROD71
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Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 2770
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Sweet lord YEEES!!!
I've been watching this thread for a while, as I'll be replacing all my fuel hose this winter. I have even emailed several Brazilian auto parts houses looking for metric sized ethanol resistant fuel hose with zero response. This could be exactly what we need. Comes in 7mm and 12mm for my FI engine! I will try this....
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**winter drivers: no survivors!**rust warrior**#keepbodyshopsbusy** |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Hey!, that's awesome, nice find!
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