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greenbrier62
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Victor, ID
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: 1.8 or 2.0 |
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I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable?
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1987 Vanagon camper
2005 VW Passat TDI
1962 Chevy Greenbrier |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1.8 or 2.0 |
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| greenbrier62 wrote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
That would be a discussion for another thread. This one's for off-brand engines.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1.8 or 2.0 |
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| greenbrier62 wrote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
The VW inline 4 doesn't really have the bottom end grunt to propel a Westy. There also isn't really the support for parts etc like there is with the Subaru and Zetec conversions.
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'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
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jashv
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 428
Location: Shepherdsville, KY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
I asked that a few weeks ago, but because I'm a newbie I guess I bored the samba gods and my thread lost interest  - Just kidding, I got some great info, but I was hoping for an "installation for dummies" guide I suppose. Hey, we gotta learn somewhere. I think I may go Ford now because of that reason. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jashv wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
I asked that a few weeks ago, but because I'm a newbie I guess I bored the samba gods and my thread lost interest - Just kidding, I got some great info, but I was hoping for an "installation for dummies" guide I suppose. Hey, we gotta learn somewhere. I think I may go Ford now because of that reason. |
There are lots of great VAG engine options, but they don't get much love here in the Sambaru forum. You'll have to run your own search query. This is definitely NOT the place to go for objective information regarding the various engine options.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Jake de Villiers
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| jashv wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
I asked that a few weeks ago, but because I'm a newbie I guess I bored the samba gods and my thread lost interest - Just kidding, I got some great info, but I was hoping for an "installation for dummies" guide I suppose. Hey, we gotta learn somewhere. I think I may go Ford now because of that reason. |
There are lots of great VAG engine options, but they don't get much love here in the Sambaru forum. You'll have to run your own search query. This is definitely NOT the place to go for objective information regarding the various engine options. |
Yeah, you should get that information from a guy who takes his family camping in a Mercedes sedan! Casey, you'd have some credibility if you actually DROVE a Vanagon, however it was powered...
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com |
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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This post is clearly about the choice between the Subie 2.5 or the Zetec, just look at the title you clicked on for proof! Why would anyone be looking for info about a VW inline 4 swap in this thread? I don't click on a 1.8T post when I want to find info about the Subaru H6 conversions.
If/when someone finally offers a well researched, fully documented, complete DIY solution using the VW inline 4, there may be something worth adding to the conversation. Until then, complaining about it here is just an exercise in futility.
Trolls will be trolls...
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1.8 or 2.0 |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
| greenbrier62 wrote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
The VW inline 4 doesn't really have the bottom end grunt to propel a Westy. There also isn't really the support for parts etc like there is with the Subaru and Zetec conversions. |
Not quite.
Many of the parts are stock VW. You can get those.
Other parts used are the stock diesel Vanagon. Again, you can get those.
There is a company or two that does support. Overland and FAS (????) (back East somewhere.)
Do not dicount those engines.
PLUS the turbo variants that can be shoe horned in, but I do not consider then as easy as a stock NA 2.0.
The I5 fits and you can use a lot of SA parts for that.
Recall the SA versions of the vans used those engines!
Tough to say there is no support.
Like the other conversions, you have to seak out the parts.
We just do not talk that much about them here on TheSamba.
Again, everybody has an opinion and some do and some do not like the inline VW engines.
Not I do not mention the various I4 diesels as it seems the OP was centered on two gas examples.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1.8 or 2.0 |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| greenbrier62 wrote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
That would be a discussion for another thread. This one's for off-brand engines. |
Uh...does this previous quote not help direct the reader to the point of this thread? How exactly is that trolling?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Last edited by Zeitgeist 13 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake de Villiers wrote: |
Yeah, you should get that information from a guy who takes his family camping in a Mercedes sedan! Casey, you'd have some credibility if you actually DROVE a Vanagon, however it was powered... |
I'm not sure what you're aiming at here, since I drive a Vanagon. It's true that I no longer camp in vehicles, but that seems to be more than a little irrelevant.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1.8 or 2.0 |
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| greenbrier62 wrote: |
| I feel like I'm missing something. Why wasn't the jetta/golf 1.8 or 2.0 asked about? Is it more complex then the other conversions? Less desirable? |
The originator of this thread didn't ask about VW engines so that's why they haven't been discussed here. There's nothing wrong with using a VW inline four. But I would only use a 2.0. The 1.8s only have 100hp and 105 lb/ft of torque. Even the basic 8 valve 2.0 only has 115 hp and 121 lb/ft of torque. That is just about adequate for a passenger van, but for a Syncro or a camper it isn't really enough. The 2.0 16V does have enough power and torque: 134hp and 133 lb/ft of torque. It looks good on paper, but it is a harsh and buzzy engine that doesn't come alive until 4000 rpms. That pretty much sums up the early VW engines. The 1.8T on the other hand is a great Vanagon engine, and I think we are starting to see it become an accepted and popular conversion. VW purists can rejoice. 
David |
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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When you click on the link for a post that is clearly labeled "Subaru 2.5 or zetec" and then needlessly redirect the post to something to support your own agenda with no other useful input, that is being a troll. In fact, that may be the exact definition of internet trolling.
If this was a one time thing, it would be easy to ignore, but this seems to be a long term favorite pastime for several members of the Vanagon/Eurovan forum here on thesamba. Most of these guys are helpful in other areas of the forum, but can't resist the opportunity to get their troll on when it comes to engine conversion threads.
If I am not interested in a thread, I don't click on it. That way I can be sure not to be bothered enough to have to rain on someone else's parade. Momma didn't raise no troll.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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crazyvwvanman
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9937
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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It seems that even a simple either A or B conversion decision is beyond rational discussion here sometimes. I'll add my 2 cents anyway.
If you are upgrading from a 1.9 wbx the Zetec is great. Many of the most satisfied Zetec owners I have spoken to were just such 1.9 wbx upgraders. If you have a strong running 2.1 wbx then the Zetec 2.0 is not as big of a jump for normal driving. While on paper it makes a lot more HP most of the HP improvement is above 4000 rpm. Nothing wrong with that but it means changing driving styles some to take full advantage of that power and definitely you don't want to fall into the trap of changing your gearing to drop highway rpms with a Zetec. The Zetec is a more efficient motor than the wbx so a significant MPG improvement can be realized if driven to take advantage of same. Used motors are plentiful for a song and replacement parts easy to find and cheap to buy.
The Subie 2.5 is kind of the sweetspot for 2.1 wbx upgraders. More power at all rpms and better mpg if driven that way. Easy to fit into the engine bay and a pretty common engine so parts and service know-how are everywhere. Lots of commonality with various Subaru conversions and great support from the Vanagon conversion community if needed. The biggest downside for doing it yourself are the many decisions to be made selecting conversion parts and the time to be spent getting the matching donor parts together and getting the wiring harness done or sent off to be done. It is like a typical conversion in that it can and mostly does drag on for many months for the first time converter.
For someone wanting to do the conversion themselves and in a fairly short time frame the advantage goes to the Bostig Zetec kit. Everything is already worked out for you in detail and any questions or doubts along the way are quickly and easily resolved by Bostig, who give fantastic support and hand-holding when needed. With a brand new wiring harness included and simple hookup to the Vanagon electrical system the part of the job most feared by the average guy just falls into place. Their great instruction videos remove all doubts about what to do and how to do it.
In short they are both good choices with only a few factors to help make the decision by. It might help to actually drive both and factor that in with everything else. In California neither option is assured of success due to bureaucratic considerations, to put it nicely and with much understatement. This thread topic is mostly off the table here.
Mark |
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greenbrier62
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 223
Location: Victor, ID
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: Not a troll |
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Yeah, I'm not trying to troll, and didn't mean to throw the thread away from the topic...Just curious why the OP was not interested in the 1.8 or 2.0 and I also just wanted to understand a little bit more about conversions before I take the plunge. Thanks for everyone's response though!!
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1987 Vanagon camper
2005 VW Passat TDI
1962 Chevy Greenbrier |
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jashv
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 428
Location: Shepherdsville, KY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't talking about trolls off subject? I have the travelocity gnome, I mean the original one from YEARS ago. Anyway, the 2.5 looks awesome, the power, the fit, but depending on skill, what you want, etc it could be up to $10K (yes I know some of you are awesome and can be given donor cars and know a guy who knows a guy to help, but not all of us are that lucky). I've found a few donors for around 4k, but if I'm going to sink money into this brick I want a zero mile motor, and the ford offers that. I'm not sure, can you find zero mile subi motors? Plus someone made a kit so even a dummy like me could install the ford, go ford.
How about some of you awesome folks write up a sticky with pics/details of a 2.5 swap so us youngin's can learn.
and p.s. I'm lucky to build a sandwich, so don't take any motor advice from me, this was just my opinion. There are guys on here (like the ones that posted in my thread last week) who have years of experience. If I could have one of them do my swap I'd give them as much beer as they could drink. Those are the guys who need to do less "trolling" and more documenting to teach the rest of us. |
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walnutplanter
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Walla Walla, WA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 1984 with 120,000 miles. I did appropriate maintenance but still had several breakdowns which left me and my family by the side of the road on several vacations. I went with a Turnkey Subaru from Hans at Vanaru. I am so far pleased with the reliability and power.
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1984 Westfalia -2007 2.5 Subaru (Vanaru) |
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One more islander...
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2010
Posts: 399
Location: Canada: British Columbia West Coast
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| PDXWesty wrote: |
| You'll notice the OP hasn't been back to chime in after saying thanks for the info, yet the debate rambles on... |
I wasn't the OP, but I was the second person chiming in to get more information about the kits (or not-so-kits) for the two engines...and I've found this whole discussion really interesting and useful.
Keep in mind that I'm a committed and curious learner but definitely not a mechanic, and not likely to ever be much of a wrencher myself, at this stage. On the other hand, I'd like to know as much about the theory of what's happening with my engine as I can, so I can keep it as happy as possible, and I think, in the long run with my rather patched-together 1988/85 with a 2.1 (according to my mechanic  ), starting over again with a new/er installation would be very reassuring.
What I've taken from the discussion so far is that both are good engines, but the Zetec is slightly less powerful and may not be quite as satisfactory for a full Westy, which is what we have, just because of the weight. People really seem to like the Subaru for the power.
On the other hand, the Zetec is easier for the amateur to install because of the great instructional materials from the production team, and the fact that it has a pre-made, easy-to-plug-in, harness.
It sounds as if when you're ready to pay for this kind of job, the dollars difference between them is not such a big deal--the choice being whether you pay the extra dollars for a mechanic to do the job, or find a local team of talented amateurs.
| Mark wrote: |
| In short they are both good choices with only a few factors to help make the decision by. It might help to actually drive both and factor that in with everything else. |
This is just the kind of feedback that I was looking for. Thanks, all of you!
Kathy |
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thatvwbusguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Being located in BC, you should have no trouble finding vans with both conversions that you can check out first hand. I have found that many owners of converted vans are happy to let you take their rig for a quick spin. I have had the opportunity to drive several instances of each conversion and have been impressed with all flavors of the Subie and Zetec powered vans.
Ultimately only the owner can determine how much power is needed for his/her van. I have a full '85 Westfalia and find the normally aspirated Zetec 2.0L to be plenty of power for my needs. If I were living at higher elevation I might be more inclined to look into the Subie 2.5 or the Bostig Turbo kit, but with pretty much all of my driving being done at less than 5,000' altitude, I have little actual need for more power.
Try to find some converted vans local to you and see if you can go for a ride along, or better yet a test drive. This will give you more real world data than a million posts on any forum could ever provide.
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Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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Rouge
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Québec,Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: |
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This is what 3 different junkyard told me :
It's hard to find a GOOD and CHEAP Subaru 2.5 in the junkyard. This motor is NOT RELIABLE and we have a lot of demand for this motor.
The Ford Zetec 2000-2004 DOHC is easy to find and is very cheap. Reliable ---> No demand ---> very good price.
I was able to find 16 Ford Zetec only in one junkyard, 3 engine was under 20000 km.
Subaru is NOT RELIABLE (Slapping, blown gasket...).
Talking with the guy at the junkyard can save you a lot of money ! |
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Zero419
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Joined: January 11, 2008
Posts: 2160
Location: PA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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There is a lot of talk about the engine choice.
A little bit about the different suppliers.
One might think there are so many Subaru conversion parts vendors because it is a good choice (which it is), and only one Ztec vendor because it's not the best choice of engine.
I feel that there are so many Subaru vendors because no one nailed it right off the bat. There is only one Ztec conversion source because no one can compete with such a well thought out, complete kit. The motor is icing on the cake
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1987 Westy Auto Bostig 2.0 Ztec |
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