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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: Neil's 59 panel build thread |
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Greetings from Detroit.
I moved up here for a job about 9 months ago, leaving the bulk of my VW collection and tools back in Texas. I lasted all of a month before I broke down and bought a new project. And this is a big project.
Its a 59 panel, the body is fairly straight, but there are a few major hacks, and rust like all northern buses have. Front floor, cargo floor next to gone, no rockers, no doglegs, no door bottoms, all pillars basically shot for the lower 6 inches. Cut bulkhead, cut dash, cut wheel wells, cut windows times 2, engine compartment clearanced for home built FI system with a BFH. No motor. Split case trans with crusty big nut boxes. Rust, Rust, Rust, and rust.
I'm crazy to invest any time or money into this one, but it should be fun, and I've made up my mind to save it in some form or another.
I kind of want to stick with the 'Jersey Look,' but I also want to make a dependable trailbasher. The other goal is to learn some new welding processes. I want to mostly use a torch for this project, just to see how it differs from the MIG welding I am used to.
Here is an as found pic, most of my pictures are going to be low quality, sorry.
and the interior
I've mostly been collecting parts for the last several months, special thanks to kevinmc for this front clip and a bunch of other odds and ends, that's my ugly mug in the walmart parking lot:
And to Seth for bumpers and more odds and ends, no pictures yet.
My work schedule is a bit nuts, so progress is going to be slow on this one, especially because I am renting out a garage 10miles from home right now. But I will try to update as frequently as I make progress/have questions. |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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First question, concerning bulkhead repairs:
I disassembled the front clip, took me about three weekends of cursing and drilling spotwelds and stuff. The new patch panel needs some repairs before it can really be used, so I want to know the following:
If you can't read the writing on the pic there, I'd really like to see a picture of what a non rusted out stock bulkhead looks like in the lower corners, and also some measurements for those area's features, and for the distance between the lower line of the pressing and the lower edge of the bulkhead. Any help there would be appreciated.
Once I know that, I will try my hand at the rust repair there, and that will be a big step forward. I've already got the bus cleaned out and I've welded up some bracing in the cab area. But I haven't cut out what little is left of the original bulkhead and wheelwells yet, because I want to leave whatever rigidity is there until the new panel is ready to go in. I left the wheel well tubs attached to the bulkhead clip, and it should all go in pretty quick and dirty once I make the space. |
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dawerks Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 2349
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats! That's one of the most fun areas on a bus to fix! I'm sure you already know this, but there is ALOT of pieces that intersect right there. The top hat, floor, bulkhead, b pillar, jackpoint, outrigger, front wheel closeout, dogleg, rocker, and the rocker strenghtener is in there too and the forward cargo door lower bolt holder.
If you check my sig 'Samba Iron Workers' link, it will lead you to a bunch of project threads dealing mostly with metal work.
Here's some pics from my 21 window;
I welded that little 'square' piece as a little holder.
I only ground the relevant welds, not all of them, so excuse the bumps!
This is from the other side..
Turned out ok in the end Just keep welding, grinding, cutting, measuring and powering on!
_________________ "There is only one sin; disconnection from self." |
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silvertonguedevil Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2010 Posts: 1692 Location: Vale, OR
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Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Ambitious project. Good luck with it. Nice to see another one saved! _________________ -Greg |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: |
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ya, I've been trying to wrap my head around all of these intersections in this area, and around the b pillars especially. Many hours squandered pouring over build threads on thesamba.
I drew this up so that I could figure out how the b pillar works. if anyone sees something wrong here, please let me know.
These new pics should help a bit, but I'd still like to know at least a width for the lowest part of the bulkhead, and the distance from the lower line of the bulge to the edge. I suppose I could just try to mock it up in situ like you did, but I feel like it will be easier to do the welding and some hammer/dolly work while it is not installed. I'll scratch my head some more and see what I can figure out. Might be able to derive some measurements through mechanical wizardry. |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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progress. slooooowwwww progress.
well, i had to move the bus to a new garage. this time its the garage behind the house im renting, which is good cuz i am much more motivated to work on it. but it is bad because rent is going up in november and i don't know if i'm gonna stay. and the land lord also said i have to find a new spot by spring. so odds are good it will be moving again in the future.
meanwhile, i have been plugging away and disassembling the donor clip. here are a few pictures of where i am now.
this is the scariest one i think. sorry, i was too lazy to rotate this, but that just adds to the scariness so lets say i intended to not rotate it for effect.
top hat is not installed yet, just setting on the rails so i can visualize how f'ed up the body to frame relationship is.
and I say f'ed up because i think i have some frame bending issues. potentially from having to move the project in a fragile state.
as you can see, it seems like the frame has sort of pinched up in the middle. I suspect the rails should be straight all the way across the bottom edge but this is currently not the case. worse on the driver side than the passenger side. At first I found this odd because there is more shit being held together on the driver side, but then i realized there is nothing holding the weight together on the driver side and now it kind of makes sense that that side would suffer more.
the result is the following:
granted, i made my own patch panel, and i haven't measured yet to make sure the distance from the beltline to the bottom of the b-pillar is the same on both sides, but the patch panels i made for the driver side and passenger side are identical and the driver side sags below the folded edge on the top hat by 5-10mm (using the eyecrometer) whereas the passenger side lines up pleasantly. I am going to print the frame dimension file tomorrow at work so that I have some reference points, but it would also be handy to hear from someone who knows what the overall distance from beltline to bottom of the b pillar is, or beltline to that folded edge on the bottom of the bpillar that lines up with the folded edge on the top hat. lots of words there, sorry. I may draw up some lines on a picture tomorrow at work to try to better explain what dimensions would be helpful.
I am also wondering whether i should attempt to straighten out the frame rails right now and see what happens to the areas in question. I am trying to think about how to brace the non bent parts of the frame so that i don't do even more damage. eventually, i want to box in the frame rails for strength. but i think i need to get them as straight as possible first. any ideas here would be appreciated.
and here is a pick me up picture of some repairs to the bottom of the tool chest area that mates up to the bulkhead and the tophat
I had to reconstruct a small chunk of the drivers side on the up right, and the whole span of the lower part of the tool chest metal. Fabbed up the side piece in my basement out of some 16ga. using my vice and some hammers. did the long piece out of 20 at the local techshop using the shear, break, and various punches for the various radii. painted up in masterseries. I've been using naval jelly to combat the heavy pitting, then ospho to convert the remaining stuff, then cleaning with acetone, then painting with a couple coats of masterseries. I don't really want to do this again in the next 30 years or so. Sandblaster would be nice, but that is not a possibility due to rental/garage situation.
will keep plugging away at this, i also will post up some more pictures of random crap i've done towards finishing the project, but you will have to wait until i can find my camera battery charger. Think it is at work.
Wish me luck!
neil |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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skipped out of work early today to work on the bus. I got the frame rails pretty much straightened out yesterday using a 3" bench vise, one of my favorite hammers, and a chunk of scrap stainless steel. It is not perfect, but it is damn close with a straight edge held up to check. Maybe slightly under 1/16" from being totally straight. I am thinking this is close enough.
Haven't checked to see if the tophat to b pillar junction looks much better, but I am a lot less worried about it now because I compared my drivers side patch to the passenger patch (both homemade) and discovered that the folded area was not exactly the same length from side to side. I suspect this is where a large chunk of the difference in alignment is coming from.
Spent today cleaning up the inside portion of the drivers side frame rail. I have no access to a sandblaster, so I've been using navel jelly, a wire wheel on a grinder, ospho, and then master series. I am letting the ospho sit overnight, and plan to paint tomorrow.
straight, clean rail (either my camera is on its last legs or I'm getting parkinsons.)
While I was outside, I started fitting repair pieces on the passenger side. I also took the opportunity to fabricate a wiring harness tube for the passenger side out of some 1" by .035" wall tubing that my bicycle building friend has had in my other van for months. Figured he wouldn't miss it. I'm thinking I need to dig through my notes and figure out who his tubing supplier was so I can get another piece of 1.125" diameter by .035" wall tubing for a new shift rod tube. Maybe I will make some phone calls to that effect tomorrow.
wiring harness tube shot
The whole idea behind the wiring harness tube is to keep stuff from rattling around and make installation easier for the new harness when I box the frame rails in. I also ground down a few of the original frame rail welds at the bend so that I can box the c channels and have the new pieces fit flush.
Oh, and some more autocraft metal came in the mail about 30min. ago, so I have something to do this weekend now.
Until next time . . . |
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norcalmike Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 4784 Location: Marina, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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suddenly, my bus doesnt look that bad.
Go,man,GO! |
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Campy Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005 Posts: 4933 Location: Chico, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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You probably already know it but make sure that you remove the "packing" primer from the top hat and scuff up the metal before painting it. _________________ Don't worry; be happy. (Baba) |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
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ya, i'm planning on removing the orange paint. not sure what the easiest way to go about doing it is. aircraft stripper maybe? wire wheel? I'll see what I can do. |
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Campy Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005 Posts: 4933 Location: Chico, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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The packing primer is sprayed over smooth metal and comes off really easily. On the inside of things such as outriggers I have to hand sand it. Then the whole thing has to be scuffed up really well so the paint will stick. On areas that will be welded (tack welds or spot welds), I spray the bare metal with 3m weldable primer. How do you do it? _________________ Don't worry; be happy. (Baba) |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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i'm planning to go over everything with masterseries, even the places where i expect to weld, but before welding, I will probably lightly sand the areas that overlap so that it is easier to get some penetration when welding. Then I will probably sand the joint and paint it again. Then apply sealer?
The thing to keep in mind is nothing is going to be perfect, especially on this bus, so all I have to do is get it good enough for who its for. Which is still probably too good cuz I have high standards. |
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Campy Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005 Posts: 4933 Location: Chico, CA
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Masterseries, the rust encapsulator? I've used POR-15 on very clean and scuffed up bare or painted metal (underbody) and it has adhered to the bare and painted metal really well. Since there is no rust for a rough surface, sanding becomes really important. The inside of panels like outriggers are especially important to protect because, once they are installed, you can't re-do it.
I've used a good metal conditioner like Metalprep 79 on bare metal to condition (etch) it, followed by the application of Galvaprep before painting, which makes the bare metal resistant to oxidation. In both cases, the bare metal had to be rinsed off with water to get rid of acid, then dried quickly with compressed air.
To weld using a mig welder, there has to be bare metal. _________________ Don't worry; be happy. (Baba) |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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yep, there are a thousand ways of going about it I suppose, but I've had pretty nice success so far with the masterseries stuff. its nice to work with, you can sand it and it fills pits fairly well. Mostly I like the smell. Joke.
I've been torch welding on this project, so its less of a concern as far as painting weld areas cuz it all just burns off anyways. I am planning on busting out my spot welder to do some parts as well, but probably only the thin stuff. not sure what thicknesses I can work with using the spot welder. Should look into that. Planning on borrowing a mig welder to box the frame rails with.
I wonder if the insides of outriggers and such ever got paint at the factory, because most of the vdubs i take apart only seem to have rust in the hard to get to areas. no paint. Buses were sprayed, right? Not dipped?
Even if all the work only lasts for 30 years I'll be happy with that, and I feel like if I take care of this thing and keep it out of the salty north then 30 years shouldn't be a problem. We'll see. |
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tferr Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2004 Posts: 315 Location: Ontario
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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been too long since my last update.
Lots to report, pictures later.
Got kicked out of the place I was renting so I had to move the bus yet again. This time I shouldn't have to move it again because I bought my own place. Yay! Project was still in stasis for most of the winter due to moving all my VW crap around and fixing up the house so that it was more livable. And my ladyfriend keeps me distracted most of the time so I've only been putting in maybe 4 hrs of work on this project every week.
Biggest news to report out is I have the bulkhead mostly installed now. I'll take a bunch of pictures of that and whatever other progress I make this weekend. Should get a bunch of shit done because Anastasia works all weekend so I am free to get good and filthy in the garage.
Have to go check out a fiat 600 now because I need another project like a hole in the head.
-Neil |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:40 am Post subject: |
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see, its actually in there! Had a hell of a time getting photos into the gallery. (my own laziness is to blame, not this wonderful site.)
Actually wondering if anyone can check out this area and tell me if I got it close. Had to lift the drivers side about 5/8" to get it to line up the way the passenger side did. This looks right based off the rust/paint line on the old b pillar from the front clip i disassembled to get the bulkhead, but I'd still like some input.
been slowly working on finishing up the patches down low on the bulkhead, just a couple to go. Expecting to get some work done later this month as I saved up some vacation days. Gonna be cold outside, but I got a wood stove in the garage now, so I have no excuse to not work.
Did end up getting the fiat 600, so I will admit i have been somewhat sidetracked with that. But gonna get more work done on the bus over the next couple of weeks for sure. |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7045 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 am Post subject: |
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nshaddox wrote: |
Did end up getting the fiat 600, so I will admit i have been somewhat sidetracked with that. But gonna get more work done on the bus over the next couple of weeks for sure. |
better than a hole in the head i guess!? _________________ regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:59 am Post subject: |
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better than a hole in the head i guess!? |
debatable, there are those who would argue i need a lobotomy. |
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nshaddox Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2005 Posts: 612 Location: Hammatramma, MI
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Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: |
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here is the 600,
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