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WBX lifter clatter
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<My engine is fine, more than fine, rebuilt not long ago>>

Can't possibly be--your asking questions about what's wrong with it.

Two more things it may possibly need to make it more than fine, if the pint of MMO didn't work.

Divine Intervention, or an Exorcism.

Might just cure it..
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time to call the Ghost Busters Laughing
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
...K1 or any diesel distillant is the same thing, minus the red dye...


...and the peppermint flavoring!
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vandam
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucas oil stabilizer and there injector cleaner hasn't been mentioned yet. I hate putting any thing but gas (premium non ethanol) and oil (20w50) in my van, but the lawn mower, and the Lexus ls400 really like both of these. The best is when you first turn the engine over after a rebuild and hear those lifters bang ( I hate that noise ) Does any one know the oil weight of Lucas oil stabilizer?
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<< Does any one know the oil weight of Lucas oil stabilizer?>>

Glue, STP, Casite Motor Honey, JC Whitney New Engine In a Can, weight.

Maybe 120--150.

I know it's heavier than gear oil--and is not a good idea to be fortifying your oil with this stuff in the winter--it'll slow things down--from spinning--a tad--a lot.

It isn't an engine cleaner, it's the grim reaper, the last step before the bone yard oil to be using.

You ever taken an engine down that has been running this stuff?

It looks like a Buffalo took a dump inside of the engine--
Not what I'd call pristine--sano--
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kuleinc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find (since I'm not driving it as much right now) that after sitting two weeks my van has no lifter clatter with the 2.1 engine. This was not previously the case. I had sometimes let it sit parked for a week and it clacked like mad. Not sure what anyone else was doing with the engine the previous 185K miles, perhaps the redline 20W50 and Wix filters I'm using every 5K miles make a difference?

TK What wears out in the hydraulic lifters? If one was to pull them out what would we be looking for?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuleinc wrote:
What wears out in the hydraulic lifters? If one was to pull them out what would we be looking for?


Unless foreign matter has entered the lifter it is usually just a gum build up that prevents them from working. Disassembling and using the right solvents to dissolve the crud is what is needed.
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kuleinc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah, thanks for the tip!
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the face is good & the stellite is not worn through so there is a non-rotaional gully in the face of the lifter, and they are clacking, I tear them apart and see how bad they are varnished,& sludged up.

I soak them in Gunk Aero Seal
( Whats That? ) for a day or two, rinse them out in HOT water , and put them back together.

Usually the springs are good--I check for the same tension on all of them so are kind of the same.
Maybe give them a little pull so they won't have the tendancy to float early.
Pre load tham with oil & pump the air outa them--make sure thay are full of oil.

This is all old school Pontiac & Oldsmobile technology.
The lifter's would clack on them all the time--especially at start up.
Vanagons all have the same loose link--the lifter's.

As long as they are squeaky clean they will hold oil & build oil pressure fast--as soon as the engine is fired up.
Internally clean is the best you can do for any engine.

Age, heat & sludge is the enemy here.

This where the Marvel kicked in back in the 60's for me--
Tin Indians liked the stuff--kept the lifter's & the inside of the engine clean so they wouldn't fail early.

The problem is your trying to put makeup on an old gal, that's been run hard & well used--to make her run good.

Frequent oil changes are a real good idea--and the premium Wix filter's are also a good product .

As long as you have it running good now--keep it that way.
You might want to back down on the oil weight a tad during the winter if your going to be driving it once in awhile.

This is why I get real short with guys that load their engines up with glue.

They have never had the engine down, have no clue what the inside looks like let alone have the right idea of how to correct the stuck, hung lifter problem.

They load the engine up with bondo thinking it's going to cure the problem when in fact they are putting ungodly pressure behind the rings creating faster cylinder & ring wear--and they sure are not making the screwed up lifter problem any better--they are adding to the problem.

I know a machine shop that has an STP / Lucas small block on an engine stand --right next to the front counter.

It's disgusting what some folks do to their engines.

It looks like somebody poured Aunt Jemima syrup into it--and baked it black & hard as coal inside of it.

Next time I'm over there I'll take some pictured of the disgusting good idea.
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jacklndn
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TK: How old are you? Wink

"Tin Indians"!

The last time I heard that I was riding my dinosaur over to Barney Olds' house.

I almost sprayed a Danny Thomas spit-take with my coffee.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the neck down or the neck up ?

Old enough to be rebuilding lifter's in 347 Tin Indian's with a cast iron 4 speed hydro.
( reverse was on the bottom of the selection )

There was somebody here looking for interior selections for a Safari--(spelled wrong too)--
and I had to double back & read why he was looking for a 2 door wagon interior. Idea
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kuleinc
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do drive it in the winter, and use the 20W50 because the engine has a LOT of miles on it. The 20W50 supposedly has more ZDDP in it or whatever, I guess not as important on a vanagon as an old bus motor, which is where I came from....

The motor should be out soon, not driving it much since winter kicked in, maybe one last trip this weekend, then I'm doing a swap. Everyone keeps telling me to expect a rod to come out of the case because of the miles. Haven't seen one yet! Very Happy

TK what weight oil would you recommend for winter time use? The engine will probably be out before the next oil change, but I'm curious anyways!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kuleinc wrote:
TK what weight oil would you recommend for winter time use? The engine will probably be out before the next oil change, but I'm curious anyways!


Manufacturers recommend lighter oils in the winter as they allow the engine to crank with less effort and start faster. If your engine struggles to turn over the oil is too thick.

Your bearings aren't going to wear much (if any) in normal use regardless of the mileage, so there isn't much reason to run a super thick oil if you have good oil pressure with a more normal weight oil like a 10w30 or 10w40. The typical XXw40 will have as much ZDDP as a 20w50.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll find all of the recomended oil weights to use for any given operating ambient temps in your owner's manual.

I am not sure how cool it gets by you but I would think that in the coldest time of the year you'd be good with 10/40.

The Zinc content of the oil shouldn't be a concern as your engine is well broke in.
The Zinc is pretty much needed for break in only--for the lifters & the faces of the cam lobes.
After the break in it isn't important.

Nothing wrong with running oil with some zinc in it.
It's just not that critical for your engine with big miles on it.

The best thing you can do for it is frequent oil changes & filters--using the correct weight oil.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Another vote for Marvel Mystery Oil - MMO Reply with quote

The Samba Forum comes through again. My 85 (1.9) sits for weeks at a time, especially during Winter months. Had the lifter clatter with every start and it continued even after 40 minutes of solid running. As suggested here put in 8oz of MMO and after 10 minutes ... silence. My hat is off once again to this bountiful knowledge portal.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Another vote for Marvel Mystery Oil - MMO Reply with quote

ysquared wrote:
The Samba Forum comes through again. My 85 (1.9) sits for weeks at a time, especially during Winter months. Had the lifter clatter with every start and it continued even after 40 minutes of solid running. As suggested here put in 8oz of MMO and after 10 minutes ... silence. My hat is off once again to this bountiful knowledge portal.



Proof again that even a bunch of monkeys can write something useful if given enough time at the key board. Razz

Glad the MMO worked for you. Wink
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nepawesty
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: trying mmo Reply with quote

1980 2.0L aircooled. Tappets tap. Enough to be a bother. Fresh oil and some mmo. Let you all know soon.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a follow up, I finally changed the oil/filter, and now when it sits, it will clat...won't even last for the full word. All my engines just lurves them some delicious Delo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how good is marvel mystery oil?,have read various posts about people using it,do not think we can get it this side of the pond,just being curious
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scottbott wrote:
how good is marvel mystery oil?,have read various posts about people using it,do not think we can get it this side of the pond,just being curious


There are other products that will do the job. You can just add some ATF to the engine oil and it will do much the same.
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