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WBX lifter clatter
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Just to keep the magic happening here...)

A full quart of MMO in the case seems like a lot to me...???

I'm running 20w-50 oil & only 4 oz. MMO each oil change,
with hardly a speck of lifter noise in over 4 years.

Just a few clicks on first startups after 5 months winter storage.

(148k miles - unmolested original 2.1)

Am I just lucky?

<crosses fingers>
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:


Just a few clicks on first startups after 5 months winter storage.

(148k miles - unmolested original 2.1)

Am I just lucky?

<crosses fingers>


Don't know what people do to get their oil so gummy. I just changed my oil at the recommend interval in the owners manual when I ran dino, and once I went to running synthetics would only change it once a years regardless of the mileage which usually exceeded 20K miles per year. I am religious about keeping the crankcase ventilation working correctly and making sure the thermostat works so that the engine heats quickly.
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nemobuscaptain
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NWB wrote:
It is my opinion that running heavier oils may help with lifter bleed off, but they also contribute to the clatter.

Thinner oils will refill a bleed lifter quicker than thicker oils. If our van sits for long enough that your lifters bleed off, don't expect them to fill up and remove all that air in a timely fashion when you are running 20w-50.


It was my opinion once also but experience proved the opposite. People seem to think because their new cars call for 5w30 that we should put it in our old cars too.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemobuscaptain wrote:
NWB wrote:
It is my opinion that running heavier oils may help with lifter bleed off, but they also contribute to the clatter.

Thinner oils will refill a bleed lifter quicker than thicker oils. If our van sits for long enough that your lifters bleed off, don't expect them to fill up and remove all that air in a timely fashion when you are running 20w-50.


It was my opinion once also but experience proved the opposite. People seem to think because their new cars call for 5w30 that we should put it in our old cars too.


The problem with an oil with numbers of 10w30 or less is that if they meet current SAE specs they will have very low ZDDP an important antiwear additive. If the oil you buy has a SAE starburst which says SM or SN on it and is 10w30 or lighter in weight it may cause harm to your engine.

IMHO it is best to stick with an oil with a second number greater than 30 (like 5W-40, or 10w-40) as these oils do not have to meet the strict limits on ZDDP.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of all the oils available today are low or have no zinc content.
The Multi Grade factor or the straight weight doesn't have much bearing on this issue.

It has none on an old , well broke in engine.

But then again you can find straight weight or muti grades racing oils that do have some of the zinc still in it--which brings nothing to bear on this lifter issue.

Look in your owner's manual.

You'll find that pretty much rule of thumb--other than in sub zero, or on the other side of the thermometer, very hot weather 10/40 or 15/40 will fit pretty much most of your needs.

If your planning on blasting accross the painted desert, or Death Valley mid summmer, I'd suggest using the heaviest multi grade that you can find.
And again--
Unless you plan on using racing oils, your not going to be doing any zinc coating of the engines internals anymore.

If this is a hompohobic problem--buy a bottle of the zinc additve and drop it in your anything oils.

This all still has nothing to do with a parked, non-use, worn out Vanagon flat four bleeding the lifter's off while sitting for a long / short period of time.

The shorter the time it's sitting and going to clacking mode would indicate to me a set of shot lifter's--which OBTW the MMO won't even correct.
Neither will any other mircale in a Can.
Wynns Friction Proofing
Casite Engine Treatment
Bardahl
Marvel Mystery Oil
Lucas Engine Glue
Motor Honey
Motor Glue
Smoke Stopper
Ring Gap filler
Pistion Slop Stopper
Magic Engine rebuilder in a Can
PTFE
Amzoil
Mobil 1
Granetelli's Engine Syrup
Warshawsky's Engine Seal
Or any other miracle liquid in a bottle or Can.

The lifter's are bleeding off beacause they are horizontal, and the bleed off check valve's are all done.

Nothing else other the OP's engine being full of molasis, and doing zip for his boogerd up, oiless, empty lifter's is causing the problem.
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vwmark
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so my lifters where being super "clacky" on my newly acquired 1985 westy.
I just added a 1/2 quart of MM oil and within a mile, silence! I was amazed. It says you can add it to your fuel, has anyone tried this with good or bad results?
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The van now has sat for a series of episodes that have lasted up to a week each, and the lifters have quieted down within seconds after each start up. Dunno if it's the residual effects of STP or the divine healing interventions of jayzus himself. Lawd almighty, I'm free at last!
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ain't been to dat mountain top yet Martin.

When that ungodly oil pressure starts heaving dem rings into dem cylinder walls from dat MOFO STP and prematurely wears dem out---
You will be wishin' dat the Revered Ainsley had faith healed dat engine when the Granetelli Glue is all done.

PTL Baby Jesus, & Amen Brotha.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt brotha. Yet, my efforts to create the Holy Hand Grenade will produce righteous fruit.


Link

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ragnarhairybreeks
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:

You will be wishin' dat the Revered Ainsley had faith healed dat engine when the Granetelli Glue is all done.


Here's your man Terry

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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are killer pajamas
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the Post Mortum blanket for the engine exam &
Wrap it up well with the glue mans PJ's and bury it.

Deep.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still nary a click or a clack


Sludge appears to work


Get a clue -- buy the glue


Hey hey TK, STP is gonna stay.

Hey hey...
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summer samba
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like Marvel Mystery Oil CREATES alot of idle chatter, (at least on this forum)...... Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

summer samba wrote:
It seems like Marvel Mystery Oil CREATES alot of idle chatter, (at least on this forum)...... Wink


Applause
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clatter.
Chatter.
What does it matter?
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nemobuscaptain
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
The problem with an oil with numbers of 10w30 or less is that if they meet current SAE specs they will have very low ZDDP an important antiwear additive. If the oil you buy has a SAE starburst which says SM or SN on it and is 10w30 or lighter in weight it may cause harm to your engine.

IMHO it is best to stick with an oil with a second number greater than 30 (like 5W-40, or 10w-40) as these oils do not have to meet the strict limits on ZDDP.


Still valid? I can't seem to find ANY oil that isn't SM or SN these days. The motorcycle oils seem to be SG or SH, implying ZDDP, but I dunno.

Which brands are you guys finding without the SM or SN symbol of lift, camshaft and bearing death?
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The low or no zinc in the oil is primarly a problem for new engine break in where the cam lobes have been known to get damaged.

I have a real hard time believing that a couple of million vehicles on the road are self destructing as they roll with zero or low Zinc in the oil --and the stellite on the cam lobes hasen't been updated, or made any harder to run with the low zinc content oils available.


Tick-Tock you thought it was a clock & poured some glue in it to quiet it down--

I personally would have gone direct to Elmer's Glue All and side step the Ganatelli Glue--newer formula.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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psych-illogical
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:
Clatter.
Chatter.
What does it matter?


Yeah, really. I just drive mine for a few minutes and the clatter is gone. No worries about which additive might or might not be damaging my engine. Happens pretty infrequently anyway.

I've got receipts for my Westy dating back over 20 years. Seems that 2 POs got talked into very expensive lifter replacement jobs (by VW dealers) over the years. Seems there really is one born every minute.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The van sat for the last 2.5 weeks. Yesterday I fired it up and there wasn't even a peep. It has the same Delo I added about a year ago...oh, and the glue. I have no idea if that's the cause and effect variable, but in all the years I've owned the lump, that sort of dormant time span has invariably produced the familiar ticks n' tocks. I report, you decide. YMMV
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