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RatCamper
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: Trying to fit rear seat belts properly. |
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G'day. I'm being bothered by seat belts. Lap belts in the rear aren't really all that hot so I've been trying to figure out an upgrade. My bus lacks the window sill to mount normal 3 point lap sash belts so this is an interesting task. To top that off at least one of the pre-existing points is incorrect.
Here is the left side outer lap belt mount. See what I mean?
To try and remedy my seatbelt issue I bought a 3 point belt. Here it is with a simulated passenger.
mounting the top point is a bear of an issue. I can either mount it through the cargo floor into one of the supports, or possibly into the support at the back of the roof near the side like this.
I'd really love some input and help with this.
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Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Trying to fit rear seat belts properly. |
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| RatCamper wrote: |
| I'd really love some input. |
Here's some input, your photo skills suck!  No direct sunlight and extra fill lighting would help alot 
That's quite the job someone did mounting to the X brace in the 1/4 panel, wouldn't want to be the one to test that out  VW mounted that point through the fender well with a roughly 2"X 4" heavy doubler and a welded nut on the tire side of the wheel well. The upper one is an issue for everyone, here's the results of a search on the subject with some reading for you: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200
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ImAddicted
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 1195
Location: Unorganized Territory, Maine
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Trying to fit rear seat belts properly. |
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| RatCamper wrote: |
I'd really love some input and help with this. |
No, No. No. That is WAY too far away for a belt. In an accident that thing will stretch and\or eject the passenger. The only real option I can see if you want to ever lay that seat flat it to mount it to side the but even that isn't a great option. |
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RatCamper
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'll agree on both the photography and ideas suck. believe it or not that's an approved seatbelt. I don't think the stretch would be an issue but the mount point probably would be. Don't think I'm thinking too clearly today.
It'd probably be okay to mount through the support running lengthways through the engine bay using some tube to stop crushing, and the usual backing plate and hardware but I'm starting to get a bit uneasy on the general idea. Shame it cost me a bit over $50 to realise it. Well, I can always re-bag the belt and put it aside for a future project.
You think the bottom point is bad, you should see where they put the top point for the sash on that side. You know the two U bits protruding from the side for the spare tyre? Through one of them.
From what you say busdaddy, it looks like one of those seatbelt mount plates with the big threaded welded nut and four rivet holes would be about right to go on that bottom point in the right position.
If I had the sill piece I could easily do a good lap sash, but I don't. It can't be mounted on mine.
Found some interesting riser bar sorts of things including a collapsible one that folds flat, but these aren't much use for older passengers.
Well, a forum is a place for people to share ideas and information, and of course ask questions. I'd rather be shot down any day than do something stupid. thanks for all the help so far everyone!
_________________
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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The PO of one bus I had solved the issue by drilling a hole through the metal above the window and right on through the roof above the drip rail, as it was a pop top the top hid the large washer and nut that was sticking out of the roof when it was closed, savage but effective I guess
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
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Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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look up how convertibles place their seatbelts....they have no B piller to bolt them down.
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
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RatCamper
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Stuartzickefoose wrote: |
| look up how convertibles place their seatbelts....they have no B piller to bolt them down. |
Indeed. They usually go on a stub of a B pillar or on a rollbar of some description. I'd love to put a cage in, or at least a partial but it's $$$ here and for the usual stupid reasons it is looking like cages in any road legal car may be blanket banned.
This is a mounted CRAB. Well, in the thread I'm linking to. I feel a little odd about rehosting a picture of someone elses children.
http://forums.kombiclub.com/showthread.php?t=38944&highlight=CRAB+bar
it looks like a good idea, unfortunately costly but still a lot less than engineer certification that other solutions may require.
_________________
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002. |
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RatCamper
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Posts: 3305
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I forgot to say, no window frame.
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Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002. |
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'm confued by this no window frame stuff you speak of, your bus began life as a panel but even panels have the same structure inside as a window bus, just the outer skins are different.
Have a read on some of those threads I linked to, this is from the second or third one down:
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Stuartzickefoose
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Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 10350
Location: SoCal for now...
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
I'm confued by this no window frame stuff you speak of, your bus began life as a panel but even panels have the same structure inside as a window bus, just the outer skins are different.
Have a read on some of those threads I linked to, this is from the second or third one down:
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i like that one!
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Stuart Zickefoose
2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual
206-841-7324
[email protected] |
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RatCamper
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
I'm confued by this no window frame stuff you speak of, your bus began life as a panel but even panels have the same structure inside as a window bus, just the outer skins are different.
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Take a good hard look at the pressed metal. I shifted some things for you. Didn't do it with a better camera though. Didn't really feel like setting up the DSLR for the shot today, sorry.
I'll have a look at the links shortly.
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Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002. |
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ImAddicted
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Joined: April 24, 2012
Posts: 1195
Location: Unorganized Territory, Maine
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| RatCamper wrote: |
I don't think the stretch would be an issue but the mount point probably would be. Don't think I'm thinking too clearly today.
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Just saying, a seatbelt will stretch approximately 20% in a 35mph crash. Now if the belt is about 3' and mounted close behind the plane of the body, that's 7" or about 4" of forward movement. Looking at the setup your originally had in the pic, it looks like about 5-6' from end to latch...20% of 60" is a foot and most of that stretch is going to be in the direction the body will be going at impact. I don't think I'd want that type of forward movement. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh, I see it now, a bolt through that would make opening the sliding door a little challenging Seems like your only option is to spread the load over a wide area, as in a bar like the pic I posted but with a large triangular sheet metal mount welded or riveted (stainless pop rivets) to the inner structure top and bottom.
I like the rear slider
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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RatCamper
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 3305
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ImAddicted wrote: |
| RatCamper wrote: |
I don't think the stretch would be an issue but the mount point probably would be. Don't think I'm thinking too clearly today.
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Just saying, a seatbelt will stretch approximately 20% in a 35mph crash. Now if the belt is about 3' and mounted close behind the plane of the body, that's 7" or about 4" of forward movement. Looking at the setup your originally had in the pic, it looks like about 5-6' from end to latch...20% of 60" is a foot and most of that stretch is going to be in the direction the body will be going at impact. I don't think I'd want that type of forward movement. |
That's really interesting. If you like I can take measurements. I only bolted in the bottom points of the three point harness anyway because I was trying to figure something out. The burned remains of the dodgy lap sash had to come off so I figured why not.
busdaddy, you have seen the source of my infinite vexation. By the way, what do you mean by "inner structure?" Like the double bit up above the roof lining and near the X panel?
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Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based pop-top camper (LCA / Sunliner). Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| RatCamper wrote: |
| busdaddy, you have seen the source of my infinite vexation. By the way, what do you mean by "inner structure?" Like the double bit up above the roof lining and near the X panel? |
Yes, unless you want to weld or bolt to the outer skin there's really no other place to mount it You still may have to do a little no matter what if the inner structure isn't welded to the outer skin well in that area, there's an extra row of closely spaced spot welds in beside the door track on a stationwagon or Kombi where that shoulder belt mount is attached for example.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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