| Author |
Message |
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
 Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:19 am Post subject: shimming rear springs |
 |
|
Yes, I have searched and read all the past forums on this topic. That is why I am a little confused. Here are my questions:
If I shim my rear drivers spring 1/4" will it effect the other wheel heights?
I saw a formula saying that it will raise it by 1.6 so .25x1.6=.4
I this true?
How will it effect the front? I'm thinking it would do so in a diagonal pattern so raising the drivers rear 1/4" might drive the front passenger wheel down 1/8" to 1/4". Is that true?
How will raising the drivers rear spring effect the passenger rear spring?
I'm really just trying to dial them all in at 17" for my 2wd Vanagon. It's pretty close now but there is a bit of sag on the left. Thank you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
thatbaldwinlife
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2011
Posts: 777
Location: Out exploring
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:21 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
I believe the rear is a 1:1 ratio where the front is 1.6:1
I have shimmed my drivers side rear more than the passenger to account for the cabinets on that side. No shims in front with our Moog springs. GoWesty 1.5" in the rear.
nate
_________________
1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:30 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| thatbaldwinlife wrote: |
I believe the rear is a 1:1 ratio where the front is 1.6:1
I have shimmed my drivers side rear more than the passenger to account for the cabinets on that side. No shims in front with our Moog springs. GoWesty 1.5" in the rear.
nate |
Thanks Nate! That's exactly what I thought too about the formula. Are you saying you shimmed the drivers rear a tad higher than the passenger rear? Right now I am thinking about shimming the DR 1/2" which will bring it to 17-1/4" and the passenger rear 1/4" which will bring it to 17-1/8". Also making the rear end just a tad higher than the front. That way when the total load of all our gear and toys are on the van we don't have a droopy butt .  I also want to keep it to stock specs which means 17" to 17" 1/2" range. Thank you as always! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mateo83
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2021
Posts: 606
Location: Lodi, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:34 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
Identify where the sag actually is. I thought i had a left rear sag, but it was actually a passenger front sag. The cross weight could affect the opposite corner.
_________________
83 Air-cooled 2.0 Tin Top |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3099
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:36 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| Schuylersister wrote: |
| ....That way when the total load of all our gear and toys are on the van we don't have a droopy butt . |
The rear air shocks work really well for that. not expensive and effective 
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thatbaldwinlife
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2011
Posts: 777
Location: Out exploring
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:36 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| Schuylersister wrote: |
| thatbaldwinlife wrote: |
I believe the rear is a 1:1 ratio where the front is 1.6:1
I have shimmed my drivers side rear more than the passenger to account for the cabinets on that side. No shims in front with our Moog springs. GoWesty 1.5" in the rear.
nate |
Thanks Nate! That's exactly what I thought too about the formula. Are you saying you shimmed the drivers rear a tad higher than the passenger rear? Right now I am thinking about shimming the DR 1/2" which will bring it to 17-1/4" and the passenger rear 1/4" which will bring it to 17-1/8". Also making the rear end just a tad higher than the front. That way when the total load of all our gear and toys are on the van we don't have a droopy butt . I also want to keep it to stock specs which means 17" to 17" 1/2" range. Thank you as always! |
Yes, if I remember, the drivers side rear is shimmed 1/2" higher than the passenger side rear. It all seems pretty level but I am sure it isn't perfect.
nate
_________________
1987 Westy
Insta: @Thatbaldwinlife
Vanagon Adventure and DIY videos:
That Baldwin Life YouTube Channel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:36 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| Mateo83 wrote: |
| Identify where the sag actually is. I thought i had a left rear sag, but it was actually a passenger front sag. The cross weight could affect the opposite corner. |
It's the rear! I've been investigating this for quite awhile. Thanks for your insights. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:40 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| vanis13 wrote: |
| Schuylersister wrote: |
| ....That way when the total load of all our gear and toys are on the van we don't have a droopy butt . |
The rear air shocks work really well for that. not expensive and effective |
Awesome idea about air shocks! I just bought Radflows from Burley and they will be installed along with some suspension upgrades front and rear. It's the next phase after Bilsteins and thirty three year old bushings. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3099
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:01 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| Schuylersister wrote: |
| vanis13 wrote: |
| Schuylersister wrote: |
| ....That way when the total load of all our gear and toys are on the van we don't have a droopy butt . |
The rear air shocks work really well for that. not expensive and effective |
Awesome idea about air shocks! I just bought Radflows from Burley and they will be installed along with some suspension upgrades front and rear. It's the next phase after Bilsteins and thirty three year old bushings. |
The Gabriel 49215 work really well and are like $100 a PAIR ($50/each) - with lifetime warranty if you get them at a place like Autozone
Several posts about these on here. Set them up with independent air valves and level your rig out.
https://gabriel.com/product-search/light-vehicle-detailed-specs/?partnum=49215
This is like a 700 lb motorcycle on the back. drove it 3,000 miles nice and level
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danielheff
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2016
Posts: 136
Location: San Diego, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:36 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
It may have been discussed previously, but taking up extra load on the upper shock bolt could cause it to shear rather than using the spring to carry the weight.
Have you had any issues with that or taken your setup on any rough roads?
The ride doesn't look level in the photos but does look significantly better than I'd expect with that much weight on the rear.
_________________
'70 Squareback 1835cc
'85 Vanagon GL Camper, EJ22, Peloquin Diff, Burley rear disc brakes, SC big front brakes, Espar D2L, 250ah Lifepo4
'85.5 944 NA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:46 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| danielheff wrote: |
It may have been discussed previously, but taking up extra load on the upper shock bolt could cause it to shear rather than using the spring to carry the weight.
Have you had any issues with that or taken your setup on any rough roads?
The ride doesn't look level in the photos but does look significantly better than I'd expect with that much weight on the rear. |
Are you asking me the one who started this thread or the one with the air shocks? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3099
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:52 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| danielheff wrote: |
It may have been discussed previously, but taking up extra load on the upper shock bolt could cause it to shear rather than using the spring to carry the weight.
Have you had any issues with that or taken your setup on any rough roads?
The ride doesn't look level in the photos but does look significantly better than I'd expect with that much weight on the rear. |
IIRC the bolts go through a U fitting so supported on both sides and unlikely to shear.
that trip was mostly highway. You'd have to define "rough" roads to be able to answer what you are thinking. I've had them for years w.o issues on all sorts of roads in all sorts of weights.
Helps to remember that the assists the main springs rather than replace them so its not carrying the full load.
IIRC, in that motorcycle picture I had it only like 1/2 of the max PSI.
I have also used the air shocks to raise the end of the vehicle several inches to slide an engine out. Fully pumped without weight on the back it looks like a hot rod on the drag strip.
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanis13
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3099
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:53 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
PS, I still have a 1/2"? cutting board shim on the sink side for every day side-to-side level and so I can have same pressure in both shocks.
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danielheff
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2016
Posts: 136
Location: San Diego, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
Sorry to get sidetracked, I was asking Vanis13.
Regarding your original question, I too have been dialing in my suspension with shims. I measured a ~3/16" drop in the passenger front when adding a 1/2" spacer to the drivers rear. Your exact setup and weight distribution will affect how it sits.
_________________
'70 Squareback 1835cc
'85 Vanagon GL Camper, EJ22, Peloquin Diff, Burley rear disc brakes, SC big front brakes, Espar D2L, 250ah Lifepo4
'85.5 944 NA |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danielheff
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2016
Posts: 136
Location: San Diego, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:20 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| vanis13 wrote: |
IIRC the bolts go through a U fitting so supported on both sides and unlikely to shear.
|
*edited my comment because I was incorrect about the upper bolt*
Your multi-year experience shows it can definitely support the weight.
Very interesting, thanks for the info!
_________________
'70 Squareback 1835cc
'85 Vanagon GL Camper, EJ22, Peloquin Diff, Burley rear disc brakes, SC big front brakes, Espar D2L, 250ah Lifepo4
'85.5 944 NA
Last edited by danielheff on Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 11:31 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| danielheff wrote: |
Sorry to get sidetracked, I was asking Vanis13.
Regarding your original question, I too have been dialing in my suspension with shims. I measured a ~3/16" drop in the passenger front when adding a 1/2" spacer to the drivers rear. Your exact setup and weight distribution will affect how it sits. |
Thank you! Very helpful info. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GoEverywhere
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2020
Posts: 516
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| danielheff wrote: |
It may have been discussed previously, but taking up extra load on the upper shock bolt could cause it to shear rather than using the spring to carry the weight.
Have you had any issues with that or taken your setup on any rough roads?
The ride doesn't look level in the photos but does look significantly better than I'd expect with that much weight on the rear. |
If you're worried about air shocks, go with air springs/bags. They'll take the weight no problem at ALL. I have them all the way around on my ride, and while I use mine to lower my rig its just as possible to use them to raise or level when carrying a large load. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| Mateo83 wrote: |
| Identify where the sag actually is. I thought i had a left rear sag, but it was actually a passenger front sag. The cross weight could affect the opposite corner. |
I was gonna point that out too, I always do the rear first to match the front, and it affects diagonally.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schuylersister
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2010
Posts: 198
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 8:04 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
If I add shims to the top of the rear springs would I remove the top existing pad (I think they call it packing) and install the shim or leave the existing packing and add a shim below it? Above it? New shim thicknesses will be minimal at
1/4” - 1/2”. Thank you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
|
| Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: Re: shimming rear springs |
|
|
| Schuylersister wrote: |
If I add shims to the top of the rear springs would I remove the top existing pad (I think they call it packing) and install the shim or leave the existing packing and add a shim below it? Above it? New shim thicknesses will be minimal at
1/4” - 1/2”. Thank you! |
Above!
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
