Starting Issues

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:08 am Post subject: Starting Issues

I haven't gotten to drive my bus lately because I've been so busy with work and family stuff. But I had been backing it up in the driveway to work on the body a little at a a time the past few months. Was hoping to go camping with her tonight but isn't looking very promising at this point.

The last few times I'd started it took several attempts to try and get it started. I haven't done any recent work on the engine in the past 8 months so I haven't changed anything to this point.

Battery, ignition switch is fine and is turning over fine. Carb is getting gas. I went and picked up a set of new points and put them in and adjusted them according to Bentley. Spark Plugs look fine. I've placed a test light between the distributor and the spark plugs and doesn't appear to be getting any spark.

I put the voltmeter between the two terminals on the coil and am getting more than 10 volts. Wanna say it was like 11.75. Unplugged the coil wire from the distributor and held to ground and got no spark. I've read that the coil and the condensor do not need replacing that often. Both were changed out about 7 years ago but doesn't have that much mileage on it as it's not a daily driver. Maybe 1500 miles.

Should I try a new coil or condenser?

Any suggestions? Thanks for your help.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

Pinetops · Samba Member Joined: March 24, 2007 Posts: 2987

How did the old set of points look? Were they burned and/or pitted? I'd try a new condenser first since they are cheap. Some people say they hardly ever need to be changed and that may be true but mine just went out recently and left me stranded, that condenser that went bad was about 4 years old.

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 11:54 am Post subject:

The points looked fine. Not burnt, not pitted at all. I'll try the condensor and see what happens. Thanks for the second opinion.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:10 am Post subject:

Time for an update. I have now replaced the points, condenser and coil. The coil is measuring 3.6 ohms across terminal 1 and 15. From the center distributor plug to the terminals, I'm getting 8500 ohms.

It appears 'm still not getting any spark from the coil. Ive tested with a spark tester light and held the coil wire to ground it and am not seeing any spark.

If i measure voltage from the coil center plug across to the negative of the battery, with switch on, I get 12.5 volts. When starting it drops to 8.5 volts.

And it's still not starting. Turning over fine just not catching. Since installing the new condenser, I static set the timing until I can get it started. TDC with rotor pointing to number one spark wire.

Any ideas? I dont understand why I'm no getting any more spark than 8.5 volts when starting.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:26 am Post subject:

Try a small jumper lead between the battery + terminal and the coil + (#15), don't forget to disconnect after the experiment.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:28 am Post subject:

To by pass the ignition switch?
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:31 am Post subject:

Exactly, 8.5V is way too weak and switches do fail.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:55 am Post subject:

The ignition switch is turning the engine over. But the 8.5 v is coming from the center of the coil which should be like 20,000 volts. If i measure the ignition wire when cranking iget 12.5 v. Thats why i was thinking the switch was fine. But ill try the jumper. Seems like i tried it before but my horn starting going off so thought i was doing it wrong. Lol.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:15 am Post subject:

Unlock the steering to prevent the horn from sounding.

So the coil is getting 12V when cranking?, you may not need the jumper. The center HT terminal on the coil voltage isn't something you can really measure, you may cook your meter. Does a test light connected between the + and - on the coil flash on and off when you crank?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:20 am Post subject:

I put the test light between the center terminal and the center distributor wire connected to the distributor but no spark.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

Take the cap off your distributor and rotate you engine until the points are closed. Now turn the ignition on and pry open the points with a popsicle stick or some other insulated object. With the coil wire set close to ground you should get a spark as you open the points.

Also with the meter hooked to the #1 (negative) side of the coil you should see the voltage go from zero to 12V as you open the points.

There is a small bare ground wire inside the distributor that acts as a ground for the points, with time it can get corroded or break off. Locate it and assess its condition.

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:56 am Post subject:

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject:

I am happy to report that she is now running again. I knew it HAD to be something weird as everything was checking out fine.

When I took the cap off to check for spark at the points, I noticed I was getting spark.. but in the wrong place. The curved part of the points was actually grounding out on the inside of the distributor when I opened the points. So, each time the high point came around, the points were grounding out on the distributor.

As soon as I readjusted the points with a decent gap between the curve of the points and the distributor, AND reset the points gap, she fired right up like she always does. Man it sounds good to have her running again.

Thanks guys for your help. Another satisfied customer. lol.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject:

Yay!, now reset your timing as it changes anytime you mess with the point gap.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

barefootwestie · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject:

Yes. I got it cranked and just set it statically. Recently got me a strobe light and tach/dwell meter so I'll hook it up and set it right. Need to look up my distributor number and find the correct offset.

Also, I know that you are supposed to set the timing, if I remember correctly, (dont have my manual in front of me, but will look up the exact rpm's before proceeding) when the rpm's are at 800 rpm. How do I actually control the rpm's as I'm setting it? Ive read numerous articles and threads and the manual but havent found HOW to actually control the RPM's while moving the distributor, and holding the timing light. Via the throttle?
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

busdaddy · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:06 pm Post subject:

The distributor number doesn't matter, all VW aircooled need 28 degrees at speed so that's where you set it and don't worry about the idle timing, here's a how to description I did in another post recently:
If you only have one hose attached to your distributor pull it off, you don't need to cap it (no need on single hose systems). Now connect the timing light to the battery and the #1 plug wire according to the timing light instructions (and set it to zero if it's the type with adjustments). Now start the engine and shoot the timing light at the scale and pulley (hold the light in your right hand), see the mark on the pulley?, good. Now using your left hand slowly open the throttle on the side of the carb (move it the same way the cable pulls it) and watch the timing mark VS: the scale, the mark on the pulley should start to move to the left, open the throttle a little more and continue until the mark no longer moves to the left any more (yes it's loud, isn't it?), give it a bit more throttle just to confirm the mark is staying put at wherever it stopped (hopefully 28 degrees) and then release the throttle. If it stopped at 28 move on to carb adjustment, if it went past or didn't make it all the way loosen the distributor clamp a little and turn the distributor a few degrees one way or the other (you pick, if it's worse go the other way), repeat until you find the happy spot and don't forget to tighten the clamp when you are done (make sure the distributor is pushed down all the way into the case too). Avoid loose fitting clothing and long hair near spinning fans and belts too, no need for a trip to emergency. Now put the hose back on, pack up the timing light and move on to carb adjustment.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

barefootwestie · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject:

Finally got a chance to break out the timing light and give it a try. I adjusted the distributor in the middle of where it wouldn't start cutting out and seems to run smooth. I have driven it and it seems to be acting OK.

However, after hooking up the light and letting the engine warm up, my TDC mark is almost 180 degrees off from where it should be on my scale. Any ideas?

I'm going to check and see if there is an additional notch 180 from where the notch I marked is.

The TDC paint mark I placed is where a notch was at on the pulley and also where my distributor rotor is pointing to #1 plug wire.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

barefootwestie · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject:

Update:

Just went to see if there are any additional notches and couldn't find any.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

The original timing mark on the pulley is pretty small and easy to miss if it hasn't been painted. If you have the correct mark, then it sounds like you probably have the clip attached to the wrong wire. Easy to hook it on #2 when you want #1.

barefootwestie · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject:

Almost positive i had #1to but certainly will double check. Hopefully thats whats wrong.
_________________
My Bus Restoration Blog
https://myvolkswagenbus.com/

1973 Westfalia
"Getting better....one repair at a time."

Other VW's owned through the years, in no particular order:
'67 Beetle,
'67 Ghia Hardtop,
'72 Ghia Convertible,
'72 Westfalia


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Page 1 of 3

Starting Issues
Page: 1, 2, 3 Next