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calvin and hobbs
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Joined: April 04, 2009
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Location: n las vegas
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: Is there a RACK and PINION kit out there for type 1s? |
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this maybe beating the skeleton of a long since dead horse but....does anyone know of a RACK and PINON steering kit for type 1's? don't get ahead of me now, i know there is the Mendeloa ($3200), Eyeball Engineering ($3,000) and Creative-Engineering's(site down at time of post) bulkhead-double a-arm, high proformance, bells and whistles out the ying-yang but like most people i can't and don't wanna spend 3 months mortgage(never mind the unforeseen costs and time it would take to install) on my bug for safer steering. i'm talking about what most of the threads on here are asking for(listen up manufacturers and engineers), a bolt-on RnP set up that delivers SAFER, TIGHTER and just all around BETTER steering that won't break the bank or the bug.
there is a thread on here that leads you here:
http://www.classic-centrum.de/Kaefer_Lenkung_1.htm
site is no good anymore. several other threads with talks of designing kits for with intentions to make copies with no such luck.
who, who out there can deliver a quality RnP setup that will meet the small need of better steering?
anyone? Bueller? ....Bueller?
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Hugo Stiglitz
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calvin and hobbs
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Joined: April 04, 2009
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Location: n las vegas
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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replaced the ENTIRE front end when i put my discs in, steering box, ball joints, damper, bushing, tie rods, shocks...everything with all new parts and the steering is still sloppy. went form a 1300SP to a 2010DP now that i can go faster the 55(without a tail wind on a downgrade), i've noticed the steering is much worse then i thought. severe play in the wheel before it actually starts to turn the car being the major issue. tried adjusting the new steering box, still sloppy. i want a cleaner feeling. over correction due to soft steering components is not something i want should the need to swerve from a kid in the street or a wreck on the highway.
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Max Welton
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calvin and hobbs
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Joined: April 04, 2009
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Location: n las vegas
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Gents, i feel we're headed in the wrong direction here. this wasn't meant to be a "how to" or a "did you try..." thread. a Rack and Pinion steering set is the focus here, that's what i'm trying to find, figure out, get.
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Max Welton
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first_one_a_65
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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there's plenty of bugs out there with even bigger engines that steer and handle just fine. im not questioning your mechanical ability or anything, but that obviously sounds like something isnt adding up.
before giving up and introducing a foreign setup into your car, why not check the basics?
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Miklo
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Joined: August 27, 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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The reason you are having a hard time finding a rack and pinion setup is that they are not really needed.
You said you bought a new steering box... what brand?
Most "new" steering box's are notoriously crappy...
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calvin and hobbs
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Joined: April 04, 2009
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Location: n las vegas
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: |
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i don't recall the brand of my steering box, i'm currently deployed so have no way of looking at the car. i want to use the time out here to research products and find toys for the bug so when i get home it's christmas.
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slalombuggy
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: |
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There are a number of racks offered, but non are DOT approved meaning you'll have to retro fit something out of another car if you want to keep it DOT legal. And none of them are a bolt in and go, they will all require reworking of fuel tank and possibly your body to fit.
I've raced for 18 years with a stock suspension and never had any problems with sloppy boxes or steering, and I run 6-8" wide slicks on the front of my buggy. I've done everyhting with that car from going through tight twisty corners to big sweepers at 50mph and in a straight line flat out at over 100 with a cross wind.
Personally I would try my best to adjust the stock box propperly and if you still can't make it work go from there.
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BDSBSS23
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Hugo Stiglitz
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| calvin and hobbs wrote: |
| Does anyone know of a RACK and PINON steering kit for type 1's? |
To answer your question from above, no. Well at least not anymore. There was a German kit that used a VW Polo rack (good luck finding one state-side), but the link to their site doesn't work anymore. So outside of the ones you've named and noted that you weren't willing to drop that kind of coin on, nope.
The consensus here, and the reason I originally asked, is with a little trouble-shooting you can get the front end of a bug pretty tight. Keep in mind though, you can do whatever you'd like - It really depends on how deep your pockets are...
Introducing a rack and pinion setup isn't going to be a magic bullet that cures all of your woes. In fact, it will undoubtedly induce more woes. But it CAN be done. Like stated earlier, you can look at a 75 and up pan, modify your current pan/body to accept it. Also consider your steering column linkage (will a stock column work??). Admittedly this is all speculation on my part as I've never tried. I guess to me the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
The stock box, tie rods and steering damper setup is very capable of handling anything you can throw at it if you have everything setup properly.
Are you running stock height? If you've lowered the car, are you running a narrowed beam? Did you drop the rear?
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clint.lunn
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have followed this thread for awhile as this topic intrests me too. It appears there are no less expensive street legal options than the ones mentioned. So I assume the next logical step is fixing the factory set up. I am not VW expert, but it seems most of the posters here think the front end can be worked out.
I have no technical advice on this issue, but what I can say is that in the past I have "believed" I "should" know how to fix or do something, but it turns out that it is just not as easy for me as it sounds. I used to spend a lot of time, energy, frustration, and ruined parts (aka money) on trying to do things I 'should know' how to do or fix. Over the years I have gotten better at knowing my limitations and have learned to hire a professional for certain things.
If I found myself in this situation I would take the car to my local VW guru, Archway imports, and say "Call me when it is done". Who knows, it could save me money too. Last year I was trying to fix a shifter cable on my Chevy II and took it out the highway for a test drive. At 65 mph it shifted into reverse instead of fourth. The wheels locked up and the cars around me were able to move in time to avoid an accident and I shifted to nuetral and coasted to the shoulder. It all turned out okay, but I could have easily wound up on my roof.
This steering deal sounds as though it could be expensive if done wrong too.
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Joel
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Br58 wrote: |
| There always 75 up pan that will work with rack and pinion. |
The 75 and later rack setup is only in the Super Beetles with strut front end, standard bugs stayed with steering box.
I've seen a few conversions into standard beetles though using racks from various donor cars like Golfs and Polos.
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jhoefer
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: |
| Br58 wrote: |
| There always 75 up pan that will work with rack and pinion. |
The 75 and later rack setup is only in the Super Beetles with strut front end, standard bugs stayed with steering box.
I've seen a few conversions into standard beetles though using racks from various donor cars like Golfs and Polos. |
Yeah, the Super rack is for front steer spindles on Supers. Won't work with a standard beetle's rear steer spindles.
You might also look at the rack from an 87 Cavalier. Center mount like the super rack but for rear steer spindles. |
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BDSBSS23
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trae
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I'm thinking you should readjust the steering you have in the car and run it...there is a damn good reason why VW chose that set up for your car and it should work just fine 
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calvin and hobbs
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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way to think outside the box,thanks Trae. as per usual, you provide priceless advice with a total lack of smartassery
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Culito
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| calvin and hobbs wrote: |
| way to think outside the box,thanks Trae. as per usual, you provide priceless advice with a total lack of smartassery |
Easy now.
There was a guy on here that built an awesome removable a-arm rack and pinion front suspension that used the stock mounting locations. Looked like lots of work, though.
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calvin and hobbs
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
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i work with Trae, he's busting my balls. it's all in "fun"
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my bad. Thanks for correcting me.