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Thoughts on Subaru engine conversions?
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abritinthebay
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Thoughts on Subaru engine conversions? Reply with quote

I have recently bought a 1967 Camper and, while I love the simplicity of the 1600 air cooled engine in there... I think we'd all admit it's not the best engine in the world (55HP, kinda prone to falling over, low gas milage, etc)

Now I'm not going to be doing this for a while - concentrating on restoring the mechanical parts and fixing the body work (rust, etc) first however I've heard a lot about these conversions - putting a 1.8-2.2l Subaru engine in..

So I thought I'd ask what you guys thought about:

a) the whole process and benefit. Seems pretty major with very little downside other than cost.

b) putting this sort of thing into a 1967 Bus.

Come to the experts right?
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crofty
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy a Subaru since buses were never meant to be quick in the first place.
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Wayland
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to put a Subaru in a VW, put it in a Vanagon. No hacking involved, and lots of info/tech support out there. I find the 1600dp in my bus to have plenty of power and be very reliable.
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abritinthebay
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
Buy a Subaru since buses were never meant to be quick in the first place.


ugh, thanks for the completely useless comment. I wasn't asking for permission.

For a start many buses are fast - mostly because they have a better engine. In fact the older buses were meant to be fast - and haul a lot more that the ~750lbs that they eventually were rated for - it's just that VW had many issues (internally and externally) that meant they couldn't put more powerful engines in them. They slowly upgraded from 36HP over time due to that.

Anyhow - it's not about speed. It's about power, reliability, efficiency, maintainability, etc. In theory the engine conversions provide these things.

Now I've seen them done in the Bay window models, but never in a split screen.

I don't even know if I will do it yet, just thoughts on this sort of process and it's feasibility with a split screen.
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abritinthebay
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayland wrote:
If you want to put a Subaru in a VW, put it in a Vanagon. No hacking involved, and lots of info/tech support out there. I find the 1600dp in my bus to have plenty of power and be very reliable.


Why the Vanagon recommendation in particular? I've seen this done in Bay windows and from what I could tell didn't realy need hacking (or if it did it was incredibly minimal).

Either way I don't have a Vanagon (and I wouldn't want one...)
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Wayland
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you driven your bus much? Is the 1600 in it in good cond? I would suggest going over the motor and driveline and making sure it is all in good condition, then driving it for awhile. You may find you are happy with the stock setup. It's also important tho think about upgrading the brakes, suspension, etc, before getting too powerful in the engine department.
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Wayland
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abritinthebay wrote:
Wayland wrote:
If you want to put a Subaru in a VW, put it in a Vanagon. No hacking involved, and lots of info/tech support out there. I find the 1600dp in my bus to have plenty of power and be very reliable.


Why the Vanagon recommendation in particular? I've seen this done in Bay windows and from what I could tell didn't realy need hacking (or if it did it was incredibly minimal).

Either way I don't have a Vanagon (and I wouldn't want one...)


Vanagons from 83 up are already watercooled, so you eliminate the hassle of trying to figure out where to put the radiator, which seems to be the biggest problem in installing a watercooled engine into an early bus. There are full kits available to install a Subaru in a Vanagon too.
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be done, just costs a lot more.

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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do it. It can be done, and with the cost of a Subaru and it's extra necessary components compared to a VW engine built for the same HP and torque, I think the costs would be comparable. Plus, the Subaru would be a more reliable engine with that high power output.

I am planing a Soob conversion to my 70, and from what I have researched, it can be done with little to no hacking of the body of the bus. I would bet the same to be true with a split. Just put the radiator underneath, between the frame rails. Don't mount it up front.

All of these cost estimations are based on you doing the work yourself, not paying a shop to do it. That would change things dramatically.
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crofty
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abritinthebay wrote:
crofty wrote:
Buy a Subaru since buses were never meant to be quick in the first place.


ugh, thanks for the completely useless comment. I wasn't asking for permission.

For a start many buses are fast - mostly because they have a better engine. In fact the older buses were meant to be fast - and haul a lot more that the ~750lbs that they eventually were rated for - it's just that VW had many issues (internally and externally) that meant they couldn't put more powerful engines in them. They slowly upgraded from 36HP over time due to that.

Anyhow - it's not about speed. It's about power, reliability, efficiency, maintainability, etc. In theory the engine conversions provide these things.

Now I've seen them done in the Bay window models, but never in a split screen.

I don't even know if I will do it yet, just thoughts on this sort of process and it's feasibility with a split screen.


Typical first post- ask for opinions then get upset when they aren't what you wanted to hear. I'll klook for your bus in the classifieds in about a year after you hack it for the suby and then lose interest.
Have you driven your bus yet or are you basing your "knowledge" on what you've heard from other people about Vw Buses and the 1600 engines being "prone to falling over"? What ever that means.
I have over 100k on my 65 Westy with 65k on a single port 1600 that can do 70mph.

Reliable? I drive to AZ and back every year without any issues. And would drive to Maine from CA if I could.

Power? It's a bus.
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Matt123
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always look at building an AC stove that's a bigger than your 1600 if you wanted a bit more oomph to push that heavy camper along. I had a 1904 in my 67 for a trip through the Rockies last year and I was keeping up with traffic with plenty of room on the throttle to spare - uphill included.

Yes, you still have maintenace but that goes with the territory of these old beasts but that's part of the fun in fully "knowing" your ride.

I just finished a 2110 and am eager to try it out in my Westy. It turns my Mango into a rocket. You may want to see that your existing 1600 is running up to it's full potential before getting to far ahead of yourself.
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j.pickens
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much easier to just go bigger with an upright VW engine of larger displacement.
1914cc seems to be a popular size, and with proper dual carbs, oil cooler, and exhaust, you can upgrade from 50 hp to 100 hp without hacking the hell out of your bus.

If you go crazy with performance upgrades to the 1914, 135hp is doable.

Remember HP=$
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big bus mike
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found through lots of experience, that the closer to stock you keep things:

The easier it is to work on
The easier it is to find parts for
The more reliable it will be
The more you will be able to enjoy it

If you want to go fast, you're starting with the wrong vehicle. It's an un-areodynamic vintage vehicle with suspension, brakes, steering, bumpers, and crumple zones designed for 60mph. No ammount of aftermarket bolt on go-fast goodies will make it survive an impact from your newfound addition of speed.

Whatever you decide, it's your bus, do what you will.
Regards.
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Wayland
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to add to the above list the fact that a bus with a non-Vw engine transplant will probably be alot harder to sell should you decided to do so down the road.
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dawerks
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After trying to cross the Rocky Mountains in a 912 motor, I am ALL for bigger power. My newer truck was struggling through them so the little ACVW was just out of it's league.

I am a fairly stock VW Bus lover, but I am ALL for Subaru swaps. The water cooled Suby is a good swap for our horizontally opposed Air cooled engines.

The only drawback I see is cost and time, but for me personally it would be made up by the fact that I could drive the bus more than 3 months out of the year (heat!).
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oldschool64bus
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

look into what the Australians are doing, suby swaps were getting big down there last I looked into it, I think it was aussieveedubbers.com or something like that.
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been researching the Subaru conversion as well for my '62 truck. I'm still in the very early stages of research - but the thought of a little more power (I'm leaning more towards a non-turbo conversion), more reliability and HEAT down the road is very appealing. Right now, im satisfied with the slow-as-molasses 40 horse for power - but im beginning to get the truck ready if I ever DO decide to go the conversion route by upgrading brakes first.

It's YOUR bus do what YOU want to do with it.
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dawerks
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a link to a very good thread on EJ22 conversions. The only issue I see with buses is the cramped quarters, but I am giving it serious thoughts.

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?uid=34350&...h=66d60b5c
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mrfallon
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

might want to add some strength to the chassis
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You basically destroy the value of your bus by doing a conversion, but some people don't give a rat's ass about that, they also usually don't care about the history of the vehicle, the philosophy behind it, etc, makes you wonder what they actually like about split window buses.
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