Author |
Message |
abritinthebay Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2012 Posts: 294 Location: San Francisco, USA
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: Thoughts on Subaru engine conversions? |
|
|
I have recently bought a 1967 Camper and, while I love the simplicity of the 1600 air cooled engine in there... I think we'd all admit it's not the best engine in the world (55HP, kinda prone to falling over, low gas milage, etc)
Now I'm not going to be doing this for a while - concentrating on restoring the mechanical parts and fixing the body work (rust, etc) first however I've heard a lot about these conversions - putting a 1.8-2.2l Subaru engine in..
So I thought I'd ask what you guys thought about:
a) the whole process and benefit. Seems pretty major with very little downside other than cost.
b) putting this sort of thing into a 1967 Bus.
Come to the experts right? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Buy a Subaru since buses were never meant to be quick in the first place. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wayland Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2005 Posts: 498 Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
If you want to put a Subaru in a VW, put it in a Vanagon. No hacking involved, and lots of info/tech support out there. I find the 1600dp in my bus to have plenty of power and be very reliable. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
abritinthebay Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2012 Posts: 294 Location: San Francisco, USA
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
crofty wrote: |
Buy a Subaru since buses were never meant to be quick in the first place. |
ugh, thanks for the completely useless comment. I wasn't asking for permission.
For a start many buses are fast - mostly because they have a better engine. In fact the older buses were meant to be fast - and haul a lot more that the ~750lbs that they eventually were rated for - it's just that VW had many issues (internally and externally) that meant they couldn't put more powerful engines in them. They slowly upgraded from 36HP over time due to that.
Anyhow - it's not about speed. It's about power, reliability, efficiency, maintainability, etc. In theory the engine conversions provide these things.
Now I've seen them done in the Bay window models, but never in a split screen.
I don't even know if I will do it yet, just thoughts on this sort of process and it's feasibility with a split screen. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
abritinthebay Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2012 Posts: 294 Location: San Francisco, USA
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wayland wrote: |
If you want to put a Subaru in a VW, put it in a Vanagon. No hacking involved, and lots of info/tech support out there. I find the 1600dp in my bus to have plenty of power and be very reliable. |
Why the Vanagon recommendation in particular? I've seen this done in Bay windows and from what I could tell didn't realy need hacking (or if it did it was incredibly minimal).
Either way I don't have a Vanagon (and I wouldn't want one...) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wayland Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2005 Posts: 498 Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have you driven your bus much? Is the 1600 in it in good cond? I would suggest going over the motor and driveline and making sure it is all in good condition, then driving it for awhile. You may find you are happy with the stock setup. It's also important tho think about upgrading the brakes, suspension, etc, before getting too powerful in the engine department. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wayland Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2005 Posts: 498 Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
abritinthebay wrote: |
Wayland wrote: |
If you want to put a Subaru in a VW, put it in a Vanagon. No hacking involved, and lots of info/tech support out there. I find the 1600dp in my bus to have plenty of power and be very reliable. |
Why the Vanagon recommendation in particular? I've seen this done in Bay windows and from what I could tell didn't realy need hacking (or if it did it was incredibly minimal).
Either way I don't have a Vanagon (and I wouldn't want one...) |
Vanagons from 83 up are already watercooled, so you eliminate the hassle of trying to figure out where to put the radiator, which seems to be the biggest problem in installing a watercooled engine into an early bus. There are full kits available to install a Subaru in a Vanagon too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76937 Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It can be done, just costs a lot more.
Porsche 6 cylinder twin turbo
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cdennisg Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004 Posts: 20278 Location: Sandpoint, ID
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Do it. It can be done, and with the cost of a Subaru and it's extra necessary components compared to a VW engine built for the same HP and torque, I think the costs would be comparable. Plus, the Subaru would be a more reliable engine with that high power output.
I am planing a Soob conversion to my 70, and from what I have researched, it can be done with little to no hacking of the body of the bus. I would bet the same to be true with a split. Just put the radiator underneath, between the frame rails. Don't mount it up front.
All of these cost estimations are based on you doing the work yourself, not paying a shop to do it. That would change things dramatically. _________________ nothing |
|
Back to top |
|
|
crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
abritinthebay wrote: |
crofty wrote: |
Buy a Subaru since buses were never meant to be quick in the first place. |
ugh, thanks for the completely useless comment. I wasn't asking for permission.
For a start many buses are fast - mostly because they have a better engine. In fact the older buses were meant to be fast - and haul a lot more that the ~750lbs that they eventually were rated for - it's just that VW had many issues (internally and externally) that meant they couldn't put more powerful engines in them. They slowly upgraded from 36HP over time due to that.
Anyhow - it's not about speed. It's about power, reliability, efficiency, maintainability, etc. In theory the engine conversions provide these things.
Now I've seen them done in the Bay window models, but never in a split screen.
I don't even know if I will do it yet, just thoughts on this sort of process and it's feasibility with a split screen. |
Typical first post- ask for opinions then get upset when they aren't what you wanted to hear. I'll klook for your bus in the classifieds in about a year after you hack it for the suby and then lose interest.
Have you driven your bus yet or are you basing your "knowledge" on what you've heard from other people about Vw Buses and the 1600 engines being "prone to falling over"? What ever that means.
I have over 100k on my 65 Westy with 65k on a single port 1600 that can do 70mph.
Reliable? I drive to AZ and back every year without any issues. And would drive to Maine from CA if I could.
Power? It's a bus. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Matt123 Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2007 Posts: 73 Location: Calgary, Canada
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You could always look at building an AC stove that's a bigger than your 1600 if you wanted a bit more oomph to push that heavy camper along. I had a 1904 in my 67 for a trip through the Rockies last year and I was keeping up with traffic with plenty of room on the throttle to spare - uphill included.
Yes, you still have maintenace but that goes with the territory of these old beasts but that's part of the fun in fully "knowing" your ride.
I just finished a 2110 and am eager to try it out in my Westy. It turns my Mango into a rocket. You may want to see that your existing 1600 is running up to it's full potential before getting to far ahead of yourself. _________________ Sep '59 Mango Standard
'67 Westy (SO45) - Sold. Thanks for the memories old bus. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
j.pickens Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002 Posts: 9791 Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Much easier to just go bigger with an upright VW engine of larger displacement.
1914cc seems to be a popular size, and with proper dual carbs, oil cooler, and exhaust, you can upgrade from 50 hp to 100 hp without hacking the hell out of your bus.
If you go crazy with performance upgrades to the 1914, 135hp is doable.
Remember HP=$ _________________ Founder and Chairman Emeritus, ECMSAS
BBX BBXII and BBXXI Long Distance Award Winner
BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
Red Fau Veh wrote: |
If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all! |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
big bus mike Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2004 Posts: 2230 Location: ABQ
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've found through lots of experience, that the closer to stock you keep things:
The easier it is to work on
The easier it is to find parts for
The more reliable it will be
The more you will be able to enjoy it
If you want to go fast, you're starting with the wrong vehicle. It's an un-areodynamic vintage vehicle with suspension, brakes, steering, bumpers, and crumple zones designed for 60mph. No ammount of aftermarket bolt on go-fast goodies will make it survive an impact from your newfound addition of speed.
Whatever you decide, it's your bus, do what you will.
Regards. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wayland Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2005 Posts: 498 Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd like to add to the above list the fact that a bus with a non-Vw engine transplant will probably be alot harder to sell should you decided to do so down the road. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dawerks Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 2349
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After trying to cross the Rocky Mountains in a 912 motor, I am ALL for bigger power. My newer truck was struggling through them so the little ACVW was just out of it's league.
I am a fairly stock VW Bus lover, but I am ALL for Subaru swaps. The water cooled Suby is a good swap for our horizontally opposed Air cooled engines.
The only drawback I see is cost and time, but for me personally it would be made up by the fact that I could drive the bus more than 3 months out of the year (heat!). _________________ "There is only one sin; disconnection from self." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
oldschool64bus Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005 Posts: 532 Location: Boise, Id
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
look into what the Australians are doing, suby swaps were getting big down there last I looked into it, I think it was aussieveedubbers.com or something like that. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nynone4 Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2004 Posts: 299 Location: Central Illinois
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've been researching the Subaru conversion as well for my '62 truck. I'm still in the very early stages of research - but the thought of a little more power (I'm leaning more towards a non-turbo conversion), more reliability and HEAT down the road is very appealing. Right now, im satisfied with the slow-as-molasses 40 horse for power - but im beginning to get the truck ready if I ever DO decide to go the conversion route by upgrading brakes first.
It's YOUR bus do what YOU want to do with it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dawerks Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 2349
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is a link to a very good thread on EJ22 conversions. The only issue I see with buses is the cramped quarters, but I am giving it serious thoughts.
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?uid=34350&...h=66d60b5c _________________ "There is only one sin; disconnection from self." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mrfallon Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2006 Posts: 290 Location: Somewhere on American soil
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
might want to add some strength to the chassis |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 11004
|
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You basically destroy the value of your bus by doing a conversion, but some people don't give a rat's ass about that, they also usually don't care about the history of the vehicle, the philosophy behind it, etc, makes you wonder what they actually like about split window buses. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|