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brese73
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Delaware
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 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:18 am Post subject: popping out of 4th gear |
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i started a thread a couple months ago about my tranny popping out of 4th gear. I initally thought the trans was toast, but Ive used the bungee chord suggestion and my trans seems fine. Runs like a champ actually. Somebody mentioned that its popping out of gear because the mechanism that holds it in gear is worn and its a simple fix. can anyone clarify?
Ive since purchased a 68 beetle trans with the intention of lowering my bus, but I would like to run stock until I come up with some bread to buy all the parts necessary for the conversion. |
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wanta60sbug
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2010
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Where do you put a bungee cord from and to? My 4th gear is having difficulties too. |
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brese73
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: bungee chord location |
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| i have one of those thick black bungee chords with the "S" hooks on both ends. Bus is a walk-thru, so one end of the bungee is connected to the handle behind the front passenger. its the perfect tension. |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| brese73 wrote: |
| Somebody mentioned that its popping out of gear because the mechanism that holds it in gear is worn and its a simple fix. can anyone clarify? |
It's not an easy fix since you have to pull the transaxle out, remove both RGBs, axles, and side covers. Pull the differential out then remove the transmission part. Once that's out you will need a decent one of these; it is the 3rd-4th slider:
It slides into a brass syncronizing ring that slams into the selected gear's hub and stays there to couple that gear into the drive train. When it's correct the slider's teeth landings are not worn. The area in description is not the part facing the inner diameter but the tops and bottoms of the teeth.
This is how they should look:
When it gets worn from either not being fully engaged or speed shifting or your clutch doesn't release all the way then this wear pattern starts to emerge.
See the little flats on the teeth:
After enough wear that little flat will act as a ramp and either when you accelerate or decelerate it will throw the slider back to neutral. Hence the bungee cord to hold it. After enough wear even a bungee won't hold it. It is hard on the fork that holds the slider while the bungee is in place but it's lubricated so WTF for awhile.
Sometimes the gear hub will actually come unpressed or break away from the gear itself in which case you will have no gear for that broken one.
This hub can be turned over in a pinch if you can't find a newer one, up to a certain degree of wear.
Good luck! I've had the bungee thing last 4 years in the past. Use just enough pressure to hold it and increase it as it needs. |
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Spezialist
Banned
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 1941
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Another vote for bungee here, at least until you can afford to do the work that you want to do!
I did a road trip with the same issue in a 65 dormobile in 89, put like 6,000 miles on it.
Just don't put too much pressure on the bungee, don't want to do further damage.
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SO33
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Ohio & Europe
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| That's it, the bungee will only delay in time the rebuild of the box. |
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brese73
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: thanks |
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Barryl,
Thanks for the thorough post. I really enjoyed reading it. The bungee is working like a champ for now. Its buying me some time to drive my bus this summer while I scrape up some funds for the rest of my lowering conversion. Now I feel better about it lasting a couple thousand miles. Ill get it rebuilt once I'm done the conversion. again thanks for the info. |
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jeston
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 14
Location: seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:29 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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I have a similar problem with my 1964 camper. I had the stock transmission rebuilt about 10 years back and only put about 1000 miles on it. I parked it to work on some rust repair and then life happened (house projects! Kids, etc.) and am now finally ready to get back into it. As I recal it was popping 3rd and 4th gear under load. I should have taken it back right away but that ship has sailed.
Since it was a new rebuild by a reputable local shop I am hoping the fix will be easy, hopefully just some adjustments. The guy was about to retire back then and I am sure he has by now so I probably can't go back there. Any thoughts?
Hoping BarryL can way in because he sounds really knowledgable on this. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| jeston wrote: |
| Hoping BarryL can way in because he sounds really knowledgable on this. |
Not real knowledgeable like the transmission guys in these forums or the shops.
Since you only have 1000 miles and 3-4 use the same coupling hub I'm going to suggest that you have someone lightly shift your bus while stationary from 3 to 4 and you observe all the coupling areas for loose set screws or coupler failure. It almost sounds like the shifter lever itself isn't moving the ball socket far enough. Check the two bolts at the floor for snugness. Eliminate those things then come back on. I'm assuming your trans mounts are all good, too. |
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Carlp336
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2017
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| Barry know the part number for the slider? |
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sgellis
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Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 2014
Location: SW Nova Scotia, Canada
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b-man
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2008
Posts: 499
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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Forcing the shift fork into the slider to keep the trans in gear slowly wears the shift fork until it becomes sharp enough to shave with, while simultaneously filling the gearbox with metal shavings.
Keep this in mind if you’re going to drive a lot of miles using the bungee cord, you may wear your transaxle to the point where it’s no longer a good core.
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Carlp336
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2017
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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shoot i wonder if same for others, my bus is 64 but im using a 68 beetle trans |
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sgellis
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Joined: July 06, 2016
Posts: 2014
Location: SW Nova Scotia, Canada
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Carlp336
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2017
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:36 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| sgellis wrote: |
| Carlp336 wrote: |
shoot i wonder if same for others, my bus is 64 but im using a 68 beetle trans |
From weddleindustries
| Quote: |
Applications:
'61-'72 VW Type 1, '61-'67 VW Type 2, '68-'71 VW Type 2 |
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saw that after .
 |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14266
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:21 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| Carlp336 wrote: |
| sgellis wrote: |
| Carlp336 wrote: |
shoot i wonder if same for others, my bus is 64 but im using a 68 beetle trans |
From weddleindustries
| Quote: |
Applications:
'61-'72 VW Type 1, '61-'67 VW Type 2, '68-'71 VW Type 2 |
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saw that after .
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My ring doesn't have a number on it but in the parts list it shows the whole slider and hub part #35 is 311 311 307A so I guess that doesn't help. I do know the size of the outer slot is different on some. Weddle should be the expert.
http://oacdp.org/5867part/241.png |
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Dustin B
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2007
Posts: 1017
Location: hesperia, Ca USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:46 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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Please don't judge me. I got a little creative when I lose fourth a week before a 400 mile road trip to BBB. It took an hour or two to make and adjust. It worked like a charm until the transmission failed Simi completely a hundred and twenty miles from home.
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Wanted Victoria motors licence plate frame.
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Original paint and patina extravaganza http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187156 |
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Carlp336
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2017
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 am Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| Dustin B wrote: |
Please don't judge me. I got a little creative when I lose fourth a week before a 400 mile road trip to BBB. It took an hour or two to make and adjust. It worked like a charm until the transmission failed Simi completely a hundred and twenty miles from home.
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why did it fail ? |
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Dustin B
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2007
Posts: 1017
Location: hesperia, Ca USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: popping out of 4th gear |
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| Carlp336 wrote: |
| Dustin B wrote: |
Please don't judge me. I got a little creative when I lose fourth a week before a 400 mile road trip to BBB. It took an hour or two to make and adjust. It worked like a charm until the transmission failed Simi completely a hundred and twenty miles from home.
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why did it fail ? |
I haven't had it rebuilt yet but it started popping out of 4th the as I was driving home from the show it started whining real bad. I stopped to check it out but nothing visibility wrong on the outside. I tested it and first, second, fourth and reverse we're all whining but third was still ok. It was still full of oil. I drained the oil and it was full of metal and pieces of gears so my guess is 4th failed while I was driving and it got into the rest of the gears.
_________________
Wanted Victoria motors licence plate frame.
62 og paint L469 type 1
61 og paint L31 DD panel type 2
64 heilite viscount tent trailer
71 sears clamshell trailer
I <3 Brazilian busses
Original paint and patina extravaganza http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187156 |
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Carlp336
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2017
Posts: 98
Location: NC
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