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Manfreds78bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Do you have the exact same flywheel that came out of the trans? How many ribs are there on your transmission? Also - can you confirm that this is a pancake style engine and not an upright. |
Yes this is the same flywheel that came with motor.
Yes this is a type 4 motor not an upright.
It's a 6 rib tranny.
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1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Manfreds78bay wrote: |
When I finally get the bell housing over the top of the fly wheel, the engine won't turn over. My theory is the studs got bent down on my engine stand. The trans is being pulled downward, being dragged into the flywheel. Going to try and bend them back into place tonight. |
If you are going to try straightening them, remove them first. You don't want to cause any additional damage cracking the case or doing something else dire. |
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Manfreds78bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I don't think they are that far off to need to remove them. But I'll check for any kind of cracking.
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1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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Manfreds78bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Manfreds78bay wrote: |
When I finally get the bell housing over the top of the fly wheel, the engine won't turn over. My theory is the studs got bent down on my engine stand. The trans is being pulled downward, being dragged into the flywheel. Going to try and bend them back into place tonight. |
If you are going to try straightening them, remove them first. You don't want to cause any additional damage cracking the case or doing something else dire. |
You are right. I should remove them. I might as well put new ones in if I'm going to remove them. Looks like they are 10X97mm. Is this correct?
I've never replaced a stud. Do you just put some red locktite on the threads and torque down properly. Should I let it sit overnight? I've removed studs before with the two nut method. I see there are some stud removal tools. Are they worth it?
Called around. No one has this length, of course. So I'll remove see how that look. I hope they are bent so I can blame this on something. If they are tweaked, I'll order new ones. If they aren't too bad, I'll try and straighten.
Is my theory sound? Would bent studs do this? I assume they get bent all the time. They are very long, but will slightly bent studs keep you from mounting the engine. It's not like they are at a 90 degree bend.
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1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51150
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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It's easy enough to see if they are bent, put the double nuts on them and give them a turn, if they are bent it'll wobble. The studs would have to be pretty bent to hang up a flywhel, there's quite a bit of slop in those holes. If you can't find studs metric all thread (redi-rod) will work in that location as well.
Or put a couple nuts on the bent end and clamp it in a vice, then put a tube over the long end and straighten,or use a soft hammer, or a piece of wood between the stud and hammer.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Putting the engine in so crooked that it engages one side and not the other will do it. But if that's the case it may also damage the clutch disc.
You can also see if it's bent by checking it with a square. Or if it's bent enough it won't engage it would probably be visible to the eye.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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My money is on it is just a PITA to replace the motor by itself in a late T4. On a T1 it is the only way to go but on a T4 it is easier to mate them out of the bus.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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blue77bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Brisvegas Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| My money is on it is just a PITA to replace the motor by itself in a late T4. On a T1 it is the only way to go but on a T4 it is easier to mate them out of the bus. |
X2 ,on late bays without the removable rear panel just wizz out the tranny ,mate them and stick it all back as 1 unit ,SO much quicker
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I have never pulled the tranny and motor together and never had the slightest problem getting them to mate. Raise the engine up, complete except for the coil, and then slide it forward. The trick is having the transmission level so that every thing stays aligned as the engine moves forward.
Don't make something hard that is easy!!! |
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VDubTech
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Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9142
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| I have never pulled the tranny and motor together |
Try it, you'll like it. Removing and installing them as a unit is the only way to go. Nothing hard about it.
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First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| I have never pulled the tranny and motor together |
Try it, you'll like it. Removing and installing them as a unit is the only way to go. Nothing hard about it. |
Since I always just pull the engine with the bus sitting outside in the grass using a 2x10 board and a few blocks, I have no desire to try and take the tranny at the same time. |
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Manfreds78bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| VDubTech wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| I have never pulled the tranny and motor together |
Try it, you'll like it. Removing and installing them as a unit is the only way to go. Nothing hard about it. |
Since I always just pull the engine with the bus sitting outside in the grass using a 2x10 board and a few blocks, I have no desire to try and take the tranny at the same time. |
There has been a handful of posts like mine. Just seems be an issue getting the trans shaft and clutch aligned properly. So strange that I've never had much of an issue. I just kind of wiggled the engine on the trans no big deal. Ugh. Going to hit it tonight now that the weather has cooled off. Wish me luck.
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1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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Manfreds78bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
I have never pulled the tranny and motor together and never had the slightest problem getting them to mate. Raise the engine up, complete except for the coil, and then slide it forward. The trick is having the transmission level so that every thing stays aligned as the engine moves forward.
Don't make something hard that is easy!!! |
Seems to me it's a preference thing.
I agree with Wildthings. I like putting in each piece separately.
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1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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Manfreds78bay
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Okay I finally got them to go together. Tips for people that are having the same issues.
The clutch friction plate was the issue and had nothing to do with the studs. I mounted the engine without the clutch and pressure plate. It bolted up without any issues.
The clutch splines were not lining up with the transmission shaft. Before trying to install the clutch, you should make sure the friction plate pushes onto the transmission shaft without much effort besides a little wiggle. If it requires some force you should clean the grooves out as much as possible. I used a metal pick. A small file would be handy but I don't have one.
There was a lot of stuff built up in the grooves. For some reason I had an easier time mounting the friction plate backwards. I believe the front of the grooves are wearing out, which is why it was difficult for the input shaft to slide into them and why installing the friction plate backwards was very easy.
After cleaning, I had to pushed the trans into the engine, pushing and wiggling back and forth very hard. I eventually felt the transmission slip into the friction plate.
My advice: If the friction pate requires a good push and a lot of wiggling during test fitting, I would take the trans out and mount them together before installation. If the friction plate goes on easy, you should have no problem installing the engine while the trans is in the bus.
If you haven't serviced the clutch and are installing the engine and having the same issues, the groves on the friction plate have probably worn a little and will probably need some cleaning and filing to make the slide onto the transmission shaft easier.
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1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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