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Jennrobin68 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: Need help identifying my distributor for parts |
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I hope someone can assist me with this...
I have a '71 ghia, 1776cc (according to the PO anyways...). Since the motor isn't "stock", I'm not sure what distributor I have. The part # stamped on the side is pretty worn and hard to read.
From what i can tell it's a Bosch 0231 167 051 (or at least I'm 99% sure that's what is stamped on the side). The rotor # is 1234 332 300 and cap is 1235 522 056. I cant seem to reference these part #'s anywhere...I even checked the Old Volks Home website.
I want to replace the points, condenser, cap & rotor (I'm attempting to do my first tune up myself) but I'm not sure what replacement parts to order. I also don't know what it should be timed to...since I don't know what I have!
And my carb is a 34 Pict-3...
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!!
Jen |
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Jennrobin68 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully these photos are helpful...
Thanks again!
Jen |
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Volfandt Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2012 Posts: 500 Location: Knox County, East TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: Distributor |
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It looks like a stock late model (71/72) DVDA (dual vaccum, dual advance) but I could be mistaken.
The vaccum can appears to have an open vaccum port on the back of it (dist body side, your 1st pic) and I can't tell from your pics if theres a vaccum line connected on the front of the vaccum can, is there?
If so, it's probably the stock dist for the 1600DP for 71/72 model yrs.
They used 2 vaccum sources, one to provide the normal vaccum advance (comes off the side of the carb to the front of the can) and the other to provide a vaccum retard feature (comes off the front of the carb to the connection on the back of the can).
These were timed at 5 degrees ATDC. Look at your engine pulley. If it's a stock 71/72 pulley it should have a dimple on the front top edge of the pulley that indicates TDC. It should then have a small slot cut in the pulleys back edge (the belt rides in between these edges) and this slot should be to the left of the dimple. That is the 5 degree ATDC mark.
Course if the pulley is an aftermarket, this changes things
*edit*
If the engine is a 1776 I wouldn't be sure that it's timed at the OEM 5 degree ATDC. I'd recommend to put a timing light on it and document how it's timed now before you change anything. Check it at idle then at approx 3000 to 3500 rpm and mark the pulley at both points w/a dab of white paint or smething similar. This way you have a base starting point.
Does it run and idle good now? If so you definitely want those base timing points for future tuneups.
If possible you should contact the person you purchased it from and see if he's got the info you need. Once you get into modified, all bets are off
Let us know
Dave _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer.... |
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Jennrobin68 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Dave. Yes, it has 2 vacuum ports, however only 1 is being used. The pulley must not be stock because there are no marks on it other than some white paint put there by the PO. Oddly the rotor doesn't point at the groove on the rim of the distributor when it's on cylinder #1 either. The groove is at about 4 o'clock and the rotor is at 5 o'clock. When the points are open I can't get a 0.016 feeler gauge in between. Heck, I can barely get a 0.01 in there because there's like a burnt spot at the bottom of the point contact surface that prevents the 0.01 gauge from going all the way through.
Contacting the PO is likely out of the question. I tried contacting him a month ago just to find out what type of oil he used with the hydraulic lifters and I got no reply...so I'm pretty much on my own here.
For what it's worth, the car starts right up and runs great. However it has some run-on when I shut it off after a long trip, and then doesn't want to start up again right away (at least not like it does when it's cold). I have to hold the pedal to the floor for a few cranks to get it to start when its hot.
So it sounds like I need to put a timing light on it now and find out what's up before I go any further. Not that I can anyways cuz I don't even know what points to buy.
Thanks again.
Jen |
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Volfandt Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2012 Posts: 500 Location: Knox County, East TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: Distributor |
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Jen, I'd say that you have the stock DVDA dist which is fine. Since you've already got a highly modified engine I wouldn't worry about the backside vaccum connection on the dizzy's can. I would recommend you plug it up just to keep crud out and also make sure that the vaccum port on the front of the carb is plugged. Looks like it's being used as a SVDA which is the dizzy I just went to.
You should be able to get the points, condensor, rotor & cap for a stock 72 1600DP engine.
If possible, see if you can find a local VW supply shop, most will let you swap parts if they're wrong as long as you didn't use them.
re. points settings. Do you have a tach/dwell meter? If so, a dwell meter is a much better way to make sure the points are gapped right. A stock 1600 should have a dwell setting of 50. I'm not sure about a 1776. Theres quite a few folks around w/1776's so perhaps they'll lend their expertice.
50 degree dwell is generally .016" point gap but can be off by a couple 1000's either way. I have used a burnishing tool, which is a small file, to clean up the face of a set of points on many occasions. You can also "borrow" your wifes/girlfriends fingernail file too
But, before you do anything get your timing light out and mark that timing pulley.
Heres a good pic of a properly marked timing pulley:
re. run-on or dieseling after shutdown.
Several things can cause that:
Timing is off, readjust
Points incorrectly set, readjust
Low octane fuel, try high test
Carb not set correctly, readjust
I defer to the 1776'ers on what fuel to run
re. hard starting when warmed up and/or hot.
Believe it or not this is somewhat normal on a stock engine.
What happens when an ACVW engine is warmed up to it's proper operating temp, it doesn't need as rich a fuel/air mixture to start as when it's cold. When you try to start it w/the throttle closed (idle position) it's drawing fuel/air out of the idle circuit and not allowing enough air to pass through the venturi which makes for a richer mixture.
Heres a page from the 72 Ghia owners manual:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/8_72ghia/30.jpg
You can download it if you go to the Technical section (upper right just below the banner screen and surf for Owners manual. They're very useful.
If no 1776 owners happen along soon, do a search for 1776 and you should get all kinds of info.
Good luck
Dave
re. _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer.... |
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Jennrobin68 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice Dave. Yes, I have a dwell meter...but I have yet to use it. I first wanted to make sure I wasn't in too far over my head...especially since I don't have a stock configuration. I have the Bentley manual and the Muir book (for whatever THAT is worth...since I have read mixed-reviews here regarding the Idiot guide...however I do fall into that category mechanically!)
So is it not a big deal that my rotor doesn't line up with the mark on the dizzy rim? It's off by about "an hour", lol.
I wish my pulley was stock with the proper notches. That would prolly make my life a little easier.
Oh, and thanks for the nail file tip. Since I AM the wife, I'll see if I have one I may just replace the points though.
Jen |
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Jennrobin68 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I WAS making progress!
I bought a new set of points and was trying to set the gap properly with the dwell meter and as I was going back and forth trying to get it "just right" (I should have called it good enough when it landed on 48 deg...) I managed to strip the threads in the plate!
Now what?!?! A new distributor??
@#$^!
Very disappointing...
Jen |
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Volfandt Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2012 Posts: 500 Location: Knox County, East TN
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:03 am Post subject: Dizzy |
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Looks like Murphy's law has struck again. Believe me, I'm not making lite of it as ole Murphy visits me often
Depending upon your skills and the tools you have handy and/or free access to, you could remove the dist, disassemble and remove the top plate, drill it oversize and retap it a size larger. The bit, tap and new screw would probably set you back $30 or less -or- you could replace the dist w/a new SVDA w/electronic (never need to set points again) ignition dist. A brand new one will run anywhere from $150 to $250 shipped. The difference in price is based mainly on quality of dist and whom sells it to you.
I just recently replaced the 009 dist on my 1600 w/a new SVDA and it improved my engines performance and starting 100 fold......
I didn't pick the top of the line and so far I'm very happy & impressed w/the performance of the one I did get. (knock on wood )
Now since your DVDA was basically setup as a SVDA, your performance will probably remain the same but, you'll not have to keep up w/mainaining the points.
If you remove the old dist, (I'm still trying to get used to the term "dizzy" ) make sure you make a mark on the body of the dist and match it to a mark on the engine case. and since your rotor doesn't line up w/the #1 cylinder mark on the dist's edge @ TDC (this is not unusual on modifieds btw), make a mark where it does line up. This way you can put it back exactly where it was when you pulled it. It's always recommended to have the engine on TDC when servicing the dist.
R&R'ing a dist isn't major but there are a few things to be aware of. The dist is driven by a slot in the drive gear so it will only seat propely two ways, properly and 180 degrees out.
The seal makes it a tight fit so you may have to tap it alittle to get it seated, make triply sure you eyeball the dist's drive shaft to make sure it's lined up w/the drive slot. There is also a small spring in the middle of the drivegear. It's purpose is to prevent the dist shaft from rattleing around when it's seated. Make sure it's there.
One last thing, if you do choose to go w/a new electronic dist, you're fingernail file will remain free of engine grease & grime
Dave _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer.... |
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Jennrobin68 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2010 Posts: 13 Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again Dave. I ended up ordering a new SVDA distributor from ACN last night. I was really leaning towards having them add the electronic module, but then I decided to save myself the $85 or so and just add it at a later time...if I choose. Hopefully the points will at least be gapped correctly out of the box so I won't have to touch that damned screw for a while!
I hear it's a real bugger getting that distributor shaft seated, especially with a new o-ring. I'd hate to pound on anything I just paid $200 bucks for!
Anyway, my car is officially OOC but I will post an update when I get that thing installed.
Jen |
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