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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: type-4 heat shield |
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when i first looked at these
i thought to myself that some dumb ass PO
cut the end off one of the shield
but while i was clening them i noticed the short shield
is not hacked and is factory made to have a shorter end
the question is
have any of you veterans noticed this before
and what year modal could require the shorter end
at first i thought it might be shorter for the a/c compressor
but the shield does not go that far to the left in the first place
the only other reason i could come up with is
the preheat tube on 75-early 76
or the heater box inlet on 79 ca (driver side)
ive had these for a while trying to figure out and confirm
why 1 of them is shorter on one side
ant thoughts would be great............. _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Both of my 79CA has that same thing. |
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Westfabulous Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 4207 Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the original shield from my 1979, if that helps you to figure out which is which.
_________________ *****************
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." |
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Manfreds78bay Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2009 Posts: 754 Location: PNW
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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If you have a spare, I'd be happy to take it off your hands _________________ 1978 2.0L FI Campmobile
1982 AMC Eagle SX4 4.2L FI |
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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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so then its confirmed....
the short heat shield is specific for a 79 ca
thanks guys _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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Westfabulous Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 4207 Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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vw76westy wrote: |
the short heat shield is specific for a 79 ca |
Probably not just a CA model though. Mine is a Federal 79, and has the short shield. _________________ *****************
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
Last edited by Westfabulous on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Westfabulous Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 4207 Location: The tropic of Canada, dodging the giant flying moose of Surrey!
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Manfreds78bay wrote: |
If you have a spare, I'd be happy to take it off your hands |
Ask and you shall receive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1321568
_________________ *****************
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." |
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Kirk Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003 Posts: 5487 Location: North Texas
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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I learn sooooooooooooooooooooo much from you guys. _________________ MAKE FORUMS GREAT AGAIN
Bear
Coble
Super
Oppenheim |
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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: |
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i thought it would be pretty cool to add
the type-4 heatshield to this thread
thats 411 -412 type-4
as you can see its the exact same size only without the notch on the end
i have not checked to see if it will fit in a bus, since it does not have the notch
i guess this will be the unofficial thread for type 4 heatshields
are there any others out there that are almost but not quite the same
as the 72-78 shield _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2707
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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haven't people since decided that these things just trap heat more than they actually 'deflect' it? |
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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
haven't people since decided that these things just trap heat more than they actually 'deflect' it? |
never heard that one before
if you dont have this shield
the only thing between the air intake (for cooling) and the
very,very hot air from the crossover pipe & mufflar is a tin piece
the shield creates a wall between the hot exhaust and the air intake(for cooling)
it looks like it would also keep the hot air around the exhaust flowing out the back insted of flowing up (making that 1 piece of tin hotter) _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51121 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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vw76westy wrote: |
airkooledchris wrote: |
haven't people since decided that these things just trap heat more than they actually 'deflect' it? |
never heard that one before
if you dont have this shield
the only thing between the air intake (for cooling) and the
very,very hot air from the crossover pipe & mufflar is a tin piece
the shield creates a wall between the hot exhaust and the air intake(for cooling)
it looks like it would also keep the hot air around the exhaust flowing out the back insted of flowing up (making that 1 piece of tin hotter) |
News to me as well, it helps with all those things and extends the life of the foam seal dramatically. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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babysnakes Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7106
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone made an after market shield? I have 2 that are shot, and it looks like asbestos between the layers. How much difference would it make if the shield was made as a single layer out of Stainless? Maybe not as good but better than nothing and last a long time. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
haven't people since decided that these things just trap heat more than they actually 'deflect' it? |
I think it was Colin that made that claim, but may be wrong.
babysnakes wrote: |
Has anyone made an after market shield? I have 2 that are shot, and it looks like asbestos between the layers. How much difference would it make if the shield was made as a single layer out of Stainless? Maybe not as good but better than nothing and last a long time. |
I have rebuilt some that were in pretty sorry states. I just used two layers of sheet metal and left an air gap between them. Seemed to work just fine and without the asbestos to hold moisture have lasted pretty well. |
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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:02 am Post subject: |
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i got a heatshield
opened it up, got rid of the asbestos
painted the metal inside and out with header paint
put a layer of firewall material in place of the asbestos
then put it back together replacing the spot welds with bolts
reclamped the edges and its been holding storng for the last couple
years
the firewall material is some type of neoprene material
that i picked up at the local vintage car swap meet (pomona swap meet) _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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timatt Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2006 Posts: 14
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: type - 4 heat shield |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
haven't people since decided that these things just trap heat more than they actually 'deflect' it? |
Amazing the misinformation that gets posted: Here is a simplified explanation. The heat shield is mounted horizontally in-between the rear part of the engine compartment an the hot muffler/crossover pipe. The heat emitted upward from the exhaust components as infrared energy and absorbed into the heat shield. The heat shield then emits the absorbed energy in all directions from its surface. Since it is flat, and mounted horizontally, roughly 50% of the infrared energy is emitted back toward exhaust components and 50% is emitted toward the engine compartment. Only half of the emitted heat form the muffler crossover reaches the tin at the rear of the engine compartment, which then absorbs/re-emits the heat in the same manner as the heat shield.
Timatt
'79 CA Westy |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: Re: type - 4 heat shield |
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timatt wrote: |
Only half of the emitted heat form the muffler crossover reaches the tin at the rear of the engine compartment, which then absorbs/re-emits the heat in the same manner as the heat shield.
Timatt
'79 CA Westy |
Since the heat shield contains some insulation much less heat is available to be radiated upwards, and since even the bottom of the shield will never get as hot as the muffler the amount of radiant heat would be much less even without the insulation. |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2707
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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it would certainly be an interesting thing to test to get real results from rather than assumptions.
I have never had one in a bus so I can't say how well it might work.
What I can say is that when the rear bumper is hot as hell from being close to the muffler - the tin in front of the cooling fan is still cool to the touch.
it would be a good test to do a specific run twice, once with and once without the shield in place - and use an IR thermometer on that tin in front of the cooling fan after both passes to compare the results. |
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vw76westy Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2007 Posts: 1584 Location: so cal
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Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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airkooledchris wrote: |
it would certainly be an interesting thing to test to get real results from rather than assumptions.
I have never had one in a bus so I can't say how well it might work.
What I can say is that when the rear bumper is hot as hell from being close to the muffler - the tin in front of the cooling fan is still cool to the touch.
it would be a good test to do a specific run twice, once with and once without the shield in place - and use an IR thermometer on that tin in front of the cooling fan after both passes to compare the results. |
im pretty sure the vw engineers already made that test
and concluded that asbestos filled tin had to be made _________________ order your BAY WINDOW T-SHIRT here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1526918
quote from bay window bus buyers guide........
The Type 4 engine is considered by many to be VW's finest air-cooled motor, |
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airkooledchris Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005 Posts: 2707
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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vw76westy wrote: |
airkooledchris wrote: |
it would certainly be an interesting thing to test to get real results from rather than assumptions.
I have never had one in a bus so I can't say how well it might work.
What I can say is that when the rear bumper is hot as hell from being close to the muffler - the tin in front of the cooling fan is still cool to the touch.
it would be a good test to do a specific run twice, once with and once without the shield in place - and use an IR thermometer on that tin in front of the cooling fan after both passes to compare the results. |
im pretty sure the vw engineers already made that test
and concluded that asbestos filled tin had to be made |
im pretty sure VW engineers weren't happy with 'pretty sure' results. it would still be a good test to do. I finally have one of these shields, so if I make it to HF anytime soon ill pick up an IR thermometer and get some numbers for us. |
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